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Thread: Healers overpowered in PVP?

  1. #1
    Sword of Telara Hrimnir's Avatar
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    Default Healers overpowered in PVP?

    I'm not sure if something changed in the open beta, but on my Guardian lev 26 Champion/Beastmaster/PVP Soul (cant rem name), i've noticed that healers are just about unkillable.

    I spent about 6 hours over this weekend just stricly running the PVP areas, and i've noticed that 1v1 killing an equal level healer is just shy of impossible, which is really sad because i have an ability that reduces healing by 50% for 15 seconds whenever i crit on the target, not to mention my various knockbacks, stuns, etc. But unless i get an incredibly lucky string of very hard hitting crits, i can barely kill healers 3-5 levels below me with an regularity. Whats crazy is i actually have pretty good gear, 2h blue axe i got from DD, blue lev 25 PVP chest from one of the vendors, purple legs from rift tokens, couple blue quest items that are level appropriate (shoulders and boots i think), and the rest are level appropriate greens. So, i know my gear wasn't a deciding factor. I've got extensive MMO experience, starting with EQ in 2000 and playing just about everything since (heavily into DAOC and Warhammer), so the chances of it being skill based are slim to none.

    What prompted me to make this post was some kind of chloromancer build i saw (at least i'm assuming because the person was wearing a robe and had a staff), yes the person was level 28, but i had just spawned in The Codex, and was running towards the statue of thontic when i noticed 6, yes SIX of my teammates all attacking one person. I'm fairly used to seeing this with sword and board tank types usually with a healer or two in the distance healing them, so i start looking around for the healers and nope, not a single extra person from the other team was nearby. This guy was literally surviving against 6 people by himself the entire time i was running up from the spawn point. Finally i got in range, charged him, rooted him, and proceeded to stun and DPS, etc, and after about 20 seconds we were barely able to kill him.

    Now, i understand that healer have to heal this much for PVE, ive noticed tanking in dungeons that many bosses will have normal hits in the 300 range every couple seconds, with burst dmg and crits to account for.

    What i think needs to happen is a reduction in single target healing in PVP. It just seems like unless you're a rogue who can stunlock someone, you're pretty much screwed trying to kill a healer, as you will stalemate, they will slowly wittle you down, or eventually a friend will show up to kill you
    Last edited by Hrimnir; 02-21-2011 at 06:57 PM.

  2. #2
    Ascendant Jeffreys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hrimnir View Post
    SIX of my teammates all attacking one person...
    ... and they didn't die?

    Sounds like a bubble unless you're exaggerating about how long that one person lasted.

  3. #3
    Shadowlander Dark_one_G's Avatar
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    naw, not really, and sorta sounds like me in a warfront :P n e how chloro is great wiz, i loved it :P

  4. #4
    Sword of Telara Hrimnir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffreys View Post
    ... and they didn't die?

    Sounds like a bubble unless you're exaggerating about how long that one person lasted.
    He was alive at least the time it took me to run mounted from the guardian spawn point, to the statue of thontic, and at least 10 seconds after that when i got on him. I know most of my team was lower level than me (i was 26) so thats gonna account for some of it. But it was one of those moments i was really wishing i had fraps running and recording the whole time, because i was literally just mouth dropped open going "WTF, how is this guy still not dead".

  5. #5
    Plane Walker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hrimnir View Post
    I'm not sure if something changed in the open beta, but on my Guardian lev 26 Champion/Beastmaster/PVP Soul (cant rem name), i've noticed that healers are just about unkillable.

    I spent about 6 hours over this weekend just stricly running the PVP areas, and i've noticed that 1v1 killing an equal level healer is just shy of impossible, which is really sad because i have an ability that reduces healing by 50% for 15 seconds whenever i crit on the target, not to mention my various knockbacks, stuns, etc. But unless i get an incredibly lucky string of very hard hitting crits, i can barely kill healers 3-5 levels below me with an regularity. Whats crazy is i actually have pretty good gear, 2h blue axe i got from DD, blue lev 25 PVP chest from one of the vendors, purple legs from rift tokens, couple blue quest items that are level appropriate (shoulders and boots i think), and the rest are level appropriate greens. So, i know my gear wasn't a deciding factor. I've got extensive MMO experience, starting with EQ in 2000 and playing just about everything since (heavily into DAOC and Warhammer), so the chances of it being skill based are slim to none.

    What prompted me to make this post was some kind of chloromancer build i saw (at least i'm assuming because the person was wearing a robe and had a staff), yes the person was level 28, but i had just spawned in The Codex, and was running towards the statue of thontic when i noticed 6, yes SIX of my teammates all attacking one person. I'm fairly used to seeing this with sword and board tank types usually with a healer or two in the distance healing them, so i start looking around for the healers and nope, not a single extra person from the other team was nearby. This guy was literally surviving against 6 people by himself the entire time i was running up from the spawn point. Finally i got in range, charged him, rooted him, and proceeded to stun and DPS, etc, and after about 20 seconds we were barely able to kill him.

    Now, i understand that healer have to heal this much for PVE, ive noticed tanking in dungeons that many bosses will have normal hits in the 300 range every couple seconds, with burst dmg and crits to account for.

    What i think needs to happen is a reduction in single target healing in PVP. It just seems like unless you're a rogue who can stunlock someone, you're pretty much screwed trying to kill a healer, as you will stalemate, they will slowly wittle you down, or eventually a friend will show up to kill you

    Lingering wounds maybe? Dunno just a thought maybe for your build in pvp.

  6. #6
    Ascendant
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    healers became more and more killable as i leveled.

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    Sword of Telara Hrimnir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrDDT View Post
    Lingering wounds maybe? Dunno just a thought maybe for your build in pvp.
    This is from my original post, first paragraph:

    Quote Originally Posted by Hrimnir View Post
    which is really sad because i have an ability that reduces healing by 50% for 15 seconds whenever i crit on the target, not to mention my various knockbacks, stuns, etc.

  8. #8
    Telaran
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    Understand, the more targets for a Chloro to dot the more healing he gets. As for Clerics; Champions and Void Knights give me the most trouble but only after lvl 26 . Currently mana drain is effective vs a Mage who has 500 more mana than I do; against me I am rendered useless very quickly. Try doing a silence or stun first and then we are force to load a big heal which is easily interrupted. Shields and instant casts can only keep up with damage for so long before everything is on CD and we have to cast heal. Obviously Wardens are not weak to this due to HoTs but there are a couple classes than can purge and that screws them hard.

    Basically each healing Soul has it's weaknesses and strengths. As a Champion i would avoid 1v1 with a Warden, Chloro or Bard. A Purifier will last a while until things are on CD. Sentinel has 2 instants before they have to cast. If I see a Champion coming (since you're so hard to spot) I'll get very defensive. Nightblades and Sabs can kill me the easiest. A single VK or Dom makes me 100% useless in less than 10s.

    Also, 1v1 with a Champ in any PVP situation my goal is to get to my team. As long as I am trying to go somewhere you have a MUCH better chance of killing me. The only time you'll get me 1v1 and I won't run is Black Garden. In Codex I won't turtle, I'll get to m team or die.

    In group fights, a Champions healing reduction sucks. Marksmen and Sabs will crit for 700+ on 5 stacks, alone I can heal that just barely. At 50% I can't. If you want to be King 1v1 I would suggest something other than Champion.
    Last edited by Zidaen; 02-21-2011 at 08:03 PM.

  9. #9
    Sword of Telara Hrimnir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zidaen View Post
    Understand, the more targets for a Chloro to dot the more healing he gets. As for Clerics; Champions and Void Knights give me the most trouble but only after lvl 26. Currently mana drain is effective vs a Mage who has 500 more mana than I do; against me I am rendered useless very quickly. Try doing a silence or stun first and then we are force to load a big heal which is easily interrupted. Shields and instant casts can only keep up with damage for so long before everything is on CD and we have to cast heal. Obviously Wardens are not weak to this due to HoTs but there are a couple classes than can purge and that screws them hard.

    Basically each healing Soul has it's weaknesses and strengths. As a Champion i would avoid 1v1 with a Warden, Chloro or Bard. A Purifier will last a while until things are on CD. Sentinel has 2 instants before they have to cast.
    What you've posted actually explains quite a bit. Thank you. I had a feeling it was going to be somewhat of a rock paper scissors situation in that certain classes would just be really strong against certain other classes. So the fact that a high level chloro was winning against multiple low levels of other classes, combined with him probably using potions, etc. It makes sense that it could have happened that way, especially if some of the players on my team werent the best at PVP.

  10. #10
    Plane Touched
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    If a single DPS class could kill a single healer without making them first burn all their timers and a bunch of mana, there wouldn't really be any point to healing. You'd see nothing but people nuking each other down in 3 seconds.

  11. #11
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hrimnir View Post
    What you've posted actually explains quite a bit. Thank you. I had a feeling it was going to be somewhat of a rock paper scissors situation in that certain classes would just be really strong against certain other classes. So the fact that a high level chloro was winning against multiple low levels of other classes, combined with him probably using potions, etc. It makes sense that it could have happened that way, especially if some of the players on my team werent the best at PVP.
    Hm, I edited more into my post. The best thing about RIFT is at anytime you can swap your soul and have a different playstyle without having to reroll. Stick with your Champion, they are great at what they do. Otherwise try a Riftblade, at lvl 34 their spear crits for 1500. It will probably get nerfed but I don't think enough people know about it. Plus you can spam it.

    Also, Chloro/Lock and Lock/chloro are probably the hardest thing to kill. Massive damage reduction and healing. With max mobility.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bakara View Post
    If a single DPS class could kill a single healer without making them first burn all their timers and a bunch of mana, there wouldn't really be any point to healing. You'd see nothing but people nuking each other down in 3 seconds.
    Even as it is right now, if a couple people assist each other I die quickly. A single Dom or VK on me makes me wish I played something else.
    Last edited by Zidaen; 02-21-2011 at 08:10 PM.

  12. #12
    Telaran tanora's Avatar
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    I can kill healers pretty easy with cooldowns, im pretty sure i could do it without aswell but ide have to time stuff.
    Last edited by tanora; 02-21-2011 at 08:09 PM.

    In warfronts since Beta 6

  13. #13
    Telaran Askalskade's Avatar
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    Levels make a HUGE difference in how easily you can tank someone as a healer.

  14. #14
    Telaran
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    i think there is a huge skill gap with healers in pvp and its obvious who knows what they are really doing.

    i can kill a bad cleric easily with a bladedancer, but good clerics are much harder to kill.
    Last edited by fuller; 02-21-2011 at 08:13 PM.

  15. #15
    Sword of Telara Hrimnir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bakara View Post
    If a single DPS class could kill a single healer without making them first burn all their timers and a bunch of mana, there wouldn't really be any point to healing. You'd see nothing but people nuking each other down in 3 seconds.
    I agree with you, the problem is that a single DPS can't outdps the normal healing that most healers in the game can sustain without using cooldowns. By the time they run out of mana they'll easily have wittled you down. And thats not including potions, etc.

    When, as a class, i have an ability that reduces healing on the target by 50%, I *should* be able to kill a healer one on one with using cooldowns and properly timed hits, stuns, etc. That's really all i'm sayin.

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