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Thread: Why PvP should be balanced for only the high-end players.

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    Champion Catskills's Avatar
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    Default Why PvP should be balanced for only the high-end players.

    On these forums, we keep seeing everyone whining about the lack of balance for some classes when they are playing something. Notably this has lead to nerfs from Trion's side, which absolutely disgusts me.

    Player vs. player should not be balanced from individual players point of view, so each class is balanced towards each other in one vs. one. Another thing they should not even try to balance is unorganized PvP due to too many factors being included. (Eg. Player's levels of skill). What they should do is wait for players to get organized, and once they are organized, they should listen to the top players (I.e. those who are notably of higher player skill level in comparison to others). If some tactic / soul is too efficient in PvP vs. any other forms of soul / character combinations, then it should be balanced. But as long as we are dealing with random players of level 35 running Warfronts in groups that are not organized, Trion should ignore their rants, just because even they know there are counters to all the souls from some other souls and that some souls are efficient counters in dealing with other souls. I.e. Rock,Paper, Scissors. Players should learn how to adapt, and in general opinion of the player's that have experience of general PvP aspects of the games, many agree to the fact that classes are balanced enough, and its up to the players to adapt to their weaknesses to enhance their strengths. So what I propose is for the players to leave their whining for now, wait for organized PvP to happen and then start the balancing.
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    Rift Disciple CaliberXIII's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catskills View Post
    On these forums, we keep seeing everyone whining about the lack of balance for some classes when they are playing something. Notably this has lead to nerfs from Trion's side, which absolutely disgusts me.
    You say Trion has nerfed things because of players 'whining', if this IS the case, i am disgusted just as much as you are. I hope they solidly test what they do before they throw the nerf ball every few weeks like blizzard did.

    I prayed trion would be different than blizzard and do some independant game balancing choices, but if they just keep listening to every 'nerf' thread, this game will end up in the trash can for many within a matter of months.

    People dont understand the weakness vs strengths game. It's rock paper scissors.

    What everyone doesn't seem to realise when they post a 'nerf' thread, is well, what do they want? Everyone to be level 10 with a sword that does 1 damage, players have 10 hp and everyone has static armor? PEOPLE NEED TO TAKE INTO ACCOUNT that NOTHING should be 'balanced'. Things need to be mechanically imperfect. OFCOURSE, some classes will be better, but it comes down to who can play their class the BEST.

    As you said, organisation is important. If people know what theyre doing they should have the upper hand.
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    Champion Catskills's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaliberXIII View Post
    You say Trion has nerfed things because of players 'whining', if this IS the case, i am disgusted just as much as you are. I hope they solidly test what they do before they throw the nerf ball every few weeks like blizzard did.

    I prayed trion would be different than blizzard and do some independant game balancing choices, but if they just keep listening to every 'nerf' thread, this game will end up in the trash can for many within a matter of months.

    People dont understand the weakness vs strengths game. It's rock paper scissors.

    What everyone doesn't seem to realise when they post a 'nerf' thread, is well, what do they want? Everyone to be level 10 with a sword that does 1 damage, players have 10 hp and everyone has static armor? PEOPLE NEED TO TAKE INTO ACCOUNT that NOTHING should be 'balanced'. Things need to be mechanically imperfect. OFCOURSE, some classes will be better, but it comes down to who can play their class the BEST.

    As you said, organisation is important. If people know what theyre doing they should have the upper hand.
    The path notes have been scarily in lines of all the whining discussions on these forums.
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    Rift Master
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    Funny thread title coming from someone who plays a Sab which happens to have the lowest skill-cap. Coincidence?

  5. #5
    Ascendant
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catskills View Post
    The path notes have been scarily in lines of all the whining discussions on these forums.
    Some complains have merit. And are also observed and feedbacked by alpha testers as well. What is annoying is the endless rant/QQ threads that TRION is probably completely ignoring anyway. IMO they are doing a great job at fixing classes. Their changes have surgical precision than blatant blanket nerfs.

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    Champion Catskills's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zooks View Post
    Funny thread title coming from someone who plays a Sab which happens to have the lowest skill-cap. Coincidence?
    Tsk, check your facts first: I may be posting builds for Saboteur's, which will be my secondary PvP role. But do you see me posting anything about my primary role? Nope. Why? Cause I want to keep all the information to myself, the less the intel, the better.

    By this post you should be able to guess my primary soul spec.
    Play to Crush.

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    Rift Chaser
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    Cant they sort of balance it for both? Lvl 50 introduces leveling your pvp soul and lots of level 50 gear. Its ******ed to think a class can be overpowered for 30-40 levels before becoming average at high levels, before changing to something better and its somehow fair still.

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    Champion Catskills's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkDain View Post
    Cant they sort of balance it for both? Lvl 50 introduces leveling your pvp soul and lots of level 50 gear. Its ******ed to think a class can be overpowered for 30-40 levels before becoming average at high levels, before changing to something better and its somehow fair still.
    Impossible with this amount of soul combinations, keep in mind that the focus is on PvE as well. Making only group PvP balances does not screw the PvE balance.
    Play to Crush.

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    Plane Touched Soull's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zooks View Post
    Funny thread title coming from someone who plays a Sab which happens to have the lowest skill-cap. Coincidence?
    you say this, yet you admitted yourself that the current changes to sab's charges were the wrong way to go.

  10. #10
    Rift Chaser Wyrath's Avatar
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    Companies never listen to minorities.

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  11. #11
    Shield of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catskills View Post
    The path notes have been scarily in lines of all the whining discussions on these forums.
    One could also think that most of the whine threads have some truth to them regardless of them being written in the most exaggerated way possible.
    I know its shocking and in most cases its just easier to think oneself as a pvp god and the other players just need to **** and l2p instead of admitting that the class one plays is (to varying degrees) overpowered.

    The change to sabs was needed (though I would have wanted it done differently), the marksman nerf was also needed, the now incoming HUGE nerf to champions and void knights is also correct, and the adjustment to flamespear too.

    (note I played and going to play a sab and warrior when the game goes live)

    To your main point to only listen to the top end gamers and only balance the game for them and not the rest... So you want trion to ignore 80%+ of their customers and only listen to (I assume) you and like minded players? Pretty selfish and not good for business

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    Rift Chaser Grufftech's Avatar
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    and whats going to happen when your team goes up against 10 sab's because its the only way scrubs can get /easymode kills?
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  13. #13
    Shadowlander
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    Trion has been on the right track with most of the changes I've seen so far. We're seeing classes that need buffs get them, and classes that are far too fotm get toned down accordingly. Sorry if this leaves your "l2pscrub" attitude butthurt in the process.
    This is why players who dry-hump fotm builds shouldn't get too attached to them, and convince themselves that they are so much better than they actually are.

    Most of the classes that got major nerfs were far too easy to faceroll with compared to others, hands down.
    Anyone who doesn't think so hasn't tried the other classes enough, or has a completely biased opinion (Which the developers do not share).
    Seriously.
    Last edited by Mc05; 02-18-2011 at 08:31 AM.

  14. #14
    Shield of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mc05 View Post
    Trion has been on the right track with most of the changes I've seen so far.
    Yes, I agree

  15. #15
    Soulwalker
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    Instead of Sabs are "op" and VK's need to be :fixed NOW!" people need to post the level and build they were using when they got "pwned." With so many classes and skills it is possible to pick a losing pvp build.

    I agree with the OP in that there has been much whining. I also think that it has been unproductive. There have been a few people that have actually taken it upon them selves to "Test" and post said tests with repeatable data...


    To those people, Thank you!

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