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Thread: Burst Damage far to excessive

  1. #1
    Soulwalker
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    Default Burst Damage far to excessive

    I have never done a QQ Post in over 6 years of playing MMOs, infact i rarely ever post on Forums, but this time I really can't resist.

    First of all, most of the time I play as a healing specced cleric (Warden/Purifier/Templar).

    I don't have a Problem with people dying, me being manaburned and such. That's absolutly part of pvp healing.

    What I do find extremly frustrating ist people basically going from full HP to 0 in a 1-2 seconds. Even with full Hots/Shields up.
    This sadly doesn't happen rarely, it happens dozends of times every warfront.
    Some souls just have INSANE burst skills. In a 1v1 Situation you have a chance to deal with it, but in Situations involving more players burst gets totally out of control. People simply get globaled without any chance of reacting. This is just bad PvP and game design and has to be adressed. Either bei reducing burst or by largly increasing peoples HP.

    Saboteurs are the most obvious and glaring problem. Yes, in theory SOME select Souls can dispell charges as of the last patch, but everone that has played as a cleric knows this will never happen effectively enough in PvP. Clerics are exremely GCD capped, struggling to keep people up from normal Dmg. With several Saboteurs around (which is the norm in any warfront at the moment) people just blow up instantly left and right of you. In 9 of 10 Warfronts a Saboteur is leading the killing blow chart with 5x the amount of killing blows of any non Saboteur.
    Saboteurs need a significant redesign of the way they deal Damage.

    Of course Saboteurs arn't the only soul with over-the-top burst. Other rogue souls and warrior souls are over the top as well.

    Mages... well, poor Mages. They are definitly made of glass, but no mage soul is even close to as much "cannon" as alot of rogue and warrior souls. Buff mages i guess.
    Last edited by Ghando; 02-16-2011 at 05:28 PM.

  2. #2
    Soulwalker Wykd's Avatar
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    another sab is op thread... never seen one of these before. Going on your theory of sabs being the top in warfronts dmg done, as you noted warriors are up there also and I have seen a fair share of mages up top 5 also. Now if only one of the arch types are always on top that means it is op, but when you have 2, and often 3 of the 4 classes in the top 5 that means the dmg being done is on par for 3 of the 4 archtypes... no?

    I am just saying I spend as much time in the warfronts as possible and rogues are not the only ones in top 5 damage done.

  3. #3
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghando View Post
    I have never done a QQ Post in over 6 years of playing MMOs, infact i rearly ever post on Forums, but this time I really can't resist.

    First of all, most of the time I play as a healing specced cleric (Warden/Purifier/Templar).

    I don't have a Problem with people dying, me being manaburned and such. That's absolutly part of pvp healing.

    What I do find extremly frustrating ist people basically going from full HP to 0 in a 1-2 seconds. Even with full Hots/Shields up.
    This sadly doesn't happen rarely, it happens dozends of times every warfront.
    Some souls just have INSANE burst skills. In a 1v1 Situation you have a chance to deal with it, but in Situations involving more players burst gets totally out of control. People simply get globaled without any chance of reacting. This is just bad PvP and game design and has to be adressed. Either bei reducing burst or by largly increasing peoples HP.

    Saboteurs are the most obvious and glaring problem. Yes, in theory SOME select Souls can dispell charges as of the last patch, but everone that has played as a cleric knows this will never happen effectively enough in PvP. Clerics are exremely GCD capped, struggling to keep people up from normal Dmg. With several Saboteurs around (which is the norm in any warfront at the moment) people just blow up instantly left and right of you. In 9 of 10 Warfronts a Saboteur is leading the killing blow chart with 5x the amount of killing blows of any non Saboteur.
    Saboteurs need a significant redesign of the way they deal Damage.

    Of course Saboteurs arn't the only soul with over-the-top burst. Other rogue souls and warrior souls are over the top as well.

    Mages... well, poor Mages. They are definitly made of glass, but no mage soul is even close to as much "cannon" as alot of rogue and warrior souls. Buff mages i guess.
    To me what it seems like ur trying to do is compare this game to wow pvp where a healer should be able to out heal any dps in which case will make a class not having a Mortal Strike(wow terms) pretty much useless solo, where as myself, I do prefer the high burst dmg that alot of classes in this game can dish out, but to me i come from daoc and someone getting bursted down with in a few seconds is a very common thing. Now making a in your terms a QQ post like this is just going to cause problems because all the things you are suggesting are all opinion based. There may be alot of people who agree with you, and alot of people who agree with me. Now im not trying to bash your post or anything because you are always entitled to your opinion but dont complain about things that you prefer where as it may be possible a majority of the community or even atleast 50% could disagree with you.
    P.S. I do admit that there are many flaws with many of the classes right now, you also have to remember the game hasnt even been released yet, and with how reactive trion is im sure they are working around the clock to get this game as "balanced, and likable" as possible

  4. #4
    Prophet of Telara Corian's Avatar
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    There's a couple of things working against you.

    First, HOTs are a poor counter to burst damage.

    Second, we don't know how this all works out at endgame.

    I mean I kinda see where you're coming from and I think the devs do too because they have made changes to sabs, but either they know something we don't, or (more likely) they're willing to see how the PvP landscape is at 50, rather than taking a big swing at balance and risking making the situation worse.

    From my perspective, the balance threads we see are par for the course. No reason to worry about it yet.

  5. #5
    Soulwalker
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    @ Wykd: Sure Mage can be among the top in damage done. Remember, i don't play a mage. I play a healer. I can tell you as a fact, that mages do lots of harmless AOE damage which lets them shine at total damage done. However it is mostly absolutly worthless damage and at the same time it is incredibly hard to keep up a mage as a healer.
    Rogues and Warriors on the other hand do the same amount of damage (often alot more) and contrary to mages, it is often heavy burst and single target which is soooooooooooo much more effective in PvP. And at the same time, they are far more resilient and easier to heal. Also they dont run out of mana.
    But this mages <-> warriors/rogues is a entirely diffrent problem and not what i made this thread about.

    @ Knoxxy: I am absolutly not saying a Healer should always be able to outheal damage until he is oom or chain ccd! I am perfectly fine with not beeing able to keep up a focused target indefinitly. BUT i'd like to be able to buy them some time (couple of seconds) by healing them. Creating a window of opportinity for them to react to cc or escape. Saboteurs and others are killing people within a second, without even a chance of me as a healer or themselves being able to react. That IS a problem, and it really is unacceptable.
    Last edited by Ghando; 02-16-2011 at 05:30 PM.

  6. #6
    Rift Disciple
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    First QQ thread ever? Sure whatever you say

  7. #7
    Telaran
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    Well if sabs burst dmg scales in amt of dmg done to target versus the amount of hps the target has in pvp the same as it does in pve I think we will see it balance out in endgame pvp seeing how my sab could apply 5charges detonate and be done with mobs early on and now i have to apply 5 stacks 2 or 3 times sometimes 4 to kill mobs @lvl12 I really think lvl 50 pvp will be fine witch is where trion should be focusing the balancing of classes anyways..... And OP please dont act like we are fools and tell us in 6yrs you have never QQed before.. If you are QQing about classes being OP here I am sure you have done it in past MMOs as people tend to think classes other than their are OP only time ive seen that to really be true is in a certain game that brought their hero class know as DKs in on their 2nd expansion where you could take a group of 5 of them with no healer and run dungeons with no wipes.... now that is OP :-P

  8. #8
    Rift Disciple Seedy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghando View Post
    @ Wykd: Sure Mage can be among the top in damage done. Remember, i don't play a mage. I play a healer. I can tell you as a fact, that mages do lots of harmless AOE damage which lets them shine at total damage done. However it is mostly absolutly worthless damage and at the same time it is incredibly hard to keep up a mage as a healer.
    Rogues and Warriors on the other hand do the same amount of damage (often alot more) and contrary to mages, it is often heavy burst and single target which is soooooooooooo much more effective in PvP. And at the same time, they are far more resilient and easier to heal. Also they dont run out of mana.
    But this mages <-> warriors/rogues is a entirely diffrent problem and not what i made this thread about.

    @ Knoxxy: I am absolutly not saying a Healer should always be able to outheal damage until he is oom or chain ccd! I am perfectly fine with not beeing able to keep up a focused target indefinitly. BUT i'd like to be able to buy them some time (couple of seconds) by healing them. Creating a window of opportinity for them to react to cc or escape. Saboteurs and others are killing people within a second, without even a chance of me as a healer or themselves being able to react. That IS a problem, and it really is unacceptable.
    I don't know, if you are talking about 1 person attacking you should definitely be able to keep them alive for a while. If you are talking several people ganging up on the person you are trying to heal, forget it. If you get several DPS concentrating on 1 person they will die, period. Just like if you have 3 or 4 healers on one tank, it will be very hard for anything to hurt him. (except a group of DPS)

  9. #9
    Plane Touched Denny Crane's Avatar
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    Another "i'm rock, so nerf paper" type thread.

    The only classes that can kill a cleric must be nerfed!

    Try killing a cleric when you're an mage!

  10. #10
    Rift Disciple
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghando View Post
    I have never done a QQ Post in over 6 years of playing MMOs, infact i rarely ever post on Forums, but this time I really can't resist.

    First of all, most of the time I play as a healing specced cleric (Warden/Purifier/Templar).

    I don't have a Problem with people dying, me being manaburned and such. That's absolutly part of pvp healing.

    What I do find extremly frustrating ist people basically going from full HP to 0 in a 1-2 seconds. Even with full Hots/Shields up.
    This sadly doesn't happen rarely, it happens dozends of times every warfront.
    Some souls just have INSANE burst skills. In a 1v1 Situation you have a chance to deal with it, but in Situations involving more players burst gets totally out of control. People simply get globaled without any chance of reacting. This is just bad PvP and game design and has to be adressed. Either bei reducing burst or by largly increasing peoples HP.

    Saboteurs are the most obvious and glaring problem. Yes, in theory SOME select Souls can dispell charges as of the last patch, but everone that has played as a cleric knows this will never happen effectively enough in PvP. Clerics are exremely GCD capped, struggling to keep people up from normal Dmg. With several Saboteurs around (which is the norm in any warfront at the moment) people just blow up instantly left and right of you. In 9 of 10 Warfronts a Saboteur is leading the killing blow chart with 5x the amount of killing blows of any non Saboteur.
    Saboteurs need a significant redesign of the way they deal Damage.

    Of course Saboteurs arn't the only soul with over-the-top burst. Other rogue souls and warrior souls are over the top as well.

    Mages... well, poor Mages. They are definitly made of glass, but no mage soul is even close to as much "cannon" as alot of rogue and warrior souls. Buff mages i guess.
    when i read Mages, ....well, poor mages....your credibility went straight to zero percent.
    mages have one of the most ridiculous burst combinations + survivability + cc in the game.

    when i am on my mage level 29 i burst a rogue from 2200 hp to zero in under 10 seconds, with the rogue wailing on me.
    with absolutely zero risk. melee rogue's like assassin, nightblade are a joke compared to the rangers of course, but dont talk smack that mages are weak. also 35 + mages are even more ridiculous, the weakest classes atm are some cleric souls and some rogue souls in the 35 + area.

    back on topic to the thread/topic, burst damage , cc and other forms of play are part of pvp, with random warfronts it can be frustrating but if you team up with your guild in pre made groups it is much more fun and burst doesnt seem to be all that...

    i see where you are coming from though , i dont mind so much, but i guess some find it frustrating
    Last edited by curiositykilledthecat; 02-16-2011 at 06:56 PM.

  11. #11
    Prophet of Telara
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    Yeah I agree with Corian.

    While everyone is leveling and not equipped in the best in slot gear everyone has damage orientated builds without enough care for damage reduction something which favor will also add to down the track.

    I agree while playing a warden soul in pve even, I've found it hard healing some burst. I put it down to the player not having the right souls points in trees to withstand the damage even with my heals.

  12. #12
    General of Telara Doktor_Ljubavi's Avatar
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    I roll as purifier/warden/sentinel. I can handle burst fine. Not sure what the problem is.

  13. #13
    Plane Walker Festo's Avatar
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    If you would stop complaining for one second about PvP and actually look at the level 50 top end PvP gear, you would see there's this stat called Valor. And then if you would scroll over Valor on the character stat screen, you would see the the stat called Valor reduces player physical damage and it reduces player magical damage done to you.

    Crying about damage in PvP at this point in time is completely worthless since we don't know how effective Valor really is. It doesn't matter how overpowered you perceive a class to be because most likely, your perception sucks.

    Saboteur play style is a new type of play style I have never seen in an MMO before, and most likely no one else has seen it either. It will take time for everyone to learn how the good ones play and then learn how to adapt to them.

    The matter of the fact is that I see people standing in an open field 9 times out of 10 in warfronts and NOT using line of sight. LoS is there for a reason, you need to use it. If you allow a range class to sit there and unload on you, you deserve to die. Personal awareness and positioning should be VERY important in PvP. And the way it looks now, it is.

  14. #14
    Shadowlander
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    You guys are all pathetic this post is very sound and completely true, all of you must be those sabs that just want to stay OP. In pvp I play a rogue and go sab just because how simple it is to own anyone. You all can cry about how sabs are getting singled out but its pretty obvious that theres a reason that is happening.

    As for the person that said mages top dmg in warfronts LOL yeah maybe but only if they are stormcaller and spam chain lighting just to "pad" the meter. The person posting this thread has valid points and a great deal of people agree with him and you can see it everyday in pvp so stop posting on threads because your butthurt that the fact you might nerfed one day and just accept it.

    I do agree however that we will not know 100% till lvl 50 endgame, as much as I hate to say that . I wont hold my breath though.

  15. #15
    Champion Catskills's Avatar
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    Seriously stop whining if something is not right in the warfronts where you play with random bunch of people. No game should be balanced for unorganized PvP. When the PvP is organized, you notice enemies have saboteur's or other burst dependent classes, assign one character to deal with this problem. Have him purge and disable the burst damage classes.

    Clerics have insane damage wards, so if you are unable to damage ward yourself from the incoming burst with all your self dispel abilities and other bull. You deserve to get blown up in to the air. You have specced yourself in a way that any classes that do not deal burst damage shouldn't have any option to kill you, but you are weak vs. bursts that you cannot heal. Thats your weakness, adapt to it instead of whining on the forums.
    Play to Crush.

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