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Thread: A comprehensive how-to guide to defeating and disabling Saboteurs.

  1. #1
    Rift Chaser Cybaster's Avatar
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    Default A comprehensive how-to guide to defeating and disabling Saboteurs.

    Now in the proper subforum!

    Use your dispels. As of beta patch 7, all Saboteur charges are considered poison effects, and can be cleansed by any dispel that targets poison effects.

    These dispels come in 5 types, all of which are instant cast:
    • A: 1 for 1 charge removal, no cooldown.
    • B: Instant and complete removal of all charges, 45 second cooldown.
    • C: Multiple charges removed over the duration of a spell, 10 second cooldown.
    • D: Removes 1 Disease, Poison, or Curse from up to 10 group/raid members within 15 meters. 10 second cooldown.
    • E: Single target heals have a 25% chance to remove a poison, disease, or curse. An additional effect, not an ability in itself.
    The following guide, using beta 7 patch notes as their source, details all known types of dispel that remove Saboteur charges. I play a Saboteur, so I will provide you with basic information about how to use them, based on what I am most afraid of you doing.

    ***DETAILED DISPEL GUIDELINES BY DISPEL TYPE:***
    • Type A - 1 for 1.
      Classes with this type,
      Chloromancer, Purifier, Sentinel, Warden
      Solo - Do not attempt to cleanse all charges with a type A cleanse. This will not be successful. The saboteur can apply them faster than you can cleanse them. Maximize whatever hots you have on yourself, and whatever dots you have on the saboteur, buying you more time to dispel charges. Weave cleanses in between damaging spells and heals to blunt the worst of the incoming damage. Minimize usage of spells with cast times so more time is freed up to dispel charges. If you find yourself facing a large charge stack, attempt to use whatever CC's you have at your disposal to disable and line of sight the Saboteur, buying yourself the time you need to completely clear the stack.
      Group - See above, but you have much more time to dedicate to dispelling charges. You may wish to dispel full time, negating most of the Saboteur's damage, so that your group has time to take him out.

    • Type B - Complete charge removal.
      Classes with this type,
      Dominator, Purifier,
      Solo - Wait until the Saboteur is about to detonate. The detonate will occur either when the detonate is certain to kill the you, or when 5 charges have been applied. Use good judgment with this one - a properly timed use of a Type B dispel will win the fight for you. Be wary that a good Saboteur will anticipate you, detonating a GCD ahead of a normal schedule, in an attempt to trip you into wasting your valuable cleanse. For this reason it may be wise to detonate at 4 stacks.
      Group - Type B's are a kill denier. Using the guidelines set out in solo usage, identify when the kill is about to happen, and deny it.

    • Type C - Multiple charges removed over time.
      Classes with this type,
      Warden
      Solo - You are the Saboteur counter class, Warden. Use in tandem with your type A cleanse, and he will quickly think better of attacking you.
      Group - Identify who the Saboteur is attacking. Prevent the accumulation of charges. Enjoy the Saboteur tears, over ice, with a slice of fresh lemon.

    • Type D - Mass removal of 1 charge, 10 second cooldown.
      Classes with this type,
      Sentinel
      Solo - Not particularly effective. Use your type A cleanse, instead.
      Group - Wait until debuff bars get good and cluttered from the fighting before usage. Don't bother dedicating this CD to the efforts of a single Saboteur.

    • Type E - Single target heals cleanse charges with a 25% chance.
      Classes with this type,
      Templar (PVP)
      Solo & Group - Use with your fastest casting heals. This additional effect will not prevent the accumulation of a large charge stack, but it will provide a useful benefit to a currently injured target being attacked by a Saboteur.


    ***LIST OF DISPELS BY CLASS, WITH COMPLETE STATS, FRESH FROM THE BETA 7 PATCH NOTES:***

    Mage calling:

    Chloromancer:
    Nature's Cleansing
    Instant 5% Mana
    Cleanses the ally, removing 1 Disease, Poison, or Curse Debuff.
    Base. 12 point investment.

    Dominator:
    Deny
    Instant 3% Mana
    Removes all Poisons, Diseases and Curses on an ally. 45 second cooldown.
    Base. 10 point investment.

    Cleric calling:

    Purifier:
    Cauterize
    Instant 4% Mana
    Removes 1 Disease, Poison, or Curse from the ally.
    Base. 12 point investment.

    Sterilize
    Instant 4% Mana
    Removes all Diseases, Poisons, and Curses from the ally. 45 second cooldown.
    Base. 26 point investment.

    Sentinel:
    Cleansing Prayer
    Instant 4% Mana
    Removes 1 Disease, Poison, or Curse from the ally.
    Base. 16 point investment.

    Empowering Light
    Instant ?? Mana
    Removes 1 Disease, Poison, or Curse from up to 10 group/raid members within 15 meters. 10 second cooldown.
    Talent. 21 point investment.

    Templar:
    Mark of Purification
    Addition effect
    Your single target heals have a 25% chance to remove a poison, disease, or curse.
    Far right talent branch. 20 point investment.

    Warden:
    Cleansing Waters
    Instant 4% Mana
    Cleanses the ally with the essence of a gentle brook, removing 1 Disease, Poison, or Curse.
    Base. 10 point investment.

    Curative Waters
    Instant 4% Mana
    Heals 1 Disease, Poison, or Curse from the ally 3 times over 6 seconds. 10 second cooldown. Jesus christ.
    Base. 26 point investment.
    Some of you might be wondering to yourselves, well, what do all of these changes mean to those of us getting blown to bits, without access to any type of dispel? The answer is: Absolutely nothing. You're not any better off than you were.

    As for the rest of you,
    Get out there and show those smarmy Saboteurs what for!

    "Crito, I owe a **** to Asclepius; will you remember to pay the debt? "
    SUPREME GRILLMASTER of The Enclave

  2. #2
    Shadowlander
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    You should also include absorbing damage abilities in you sab report. One you go through the rest of the skills/talents that are in the game to reduce or neuter the sab's effectiveness, you will realize there are few options left for losing to a sab.

    Anyone who complains about sabs after this comprehensive post on how to deal with them needs to LTP.

  3. #3
    Soulwalker
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    Good for 1v1, on 2v2 or more the sab will just change targets, if wise (if 2 or less charges are on a target switch, with 3 or more just detonate when cleric starts to cleanse and switch targets).

    Better said, in group pvp there are some more tactics, in 1v1, sabs got the upper hand if they jump you, by the time you notice you are being charged they'll detonate, and else they can use silences/stuns/other cc (from other souls) to interrupt cleansing/healing, etc.

    People focus to much on charges and detonate, we're not sitting ducks pressing 2 buttons (well, not every one of us), saboteurs got a lot more potentional especially when mixed with other classes, for example: assa/sab/NB

    You can get stealth (so you decide the fight and have the first jump), you get lost hope and can stack up to 5 then detonate, you got blinding powder, multiple stuns, silence.

    Bad sab's will whine and die horribly while the ones with (a little bit) skill will perform better thanks to the damage increase from assa tree (ppl complain that we 'have to use' the assa tree but it gives alot of utility: stealth, extra poisons/crit, blinding powder, incapacitate, stun, healing).

    Overall i'm really happy with the changes, i'm not sure if the charges will be elemental damage (and they ignore armor) but we'll see that. And cleansing will drain mana pretty quickly, especially if you have to do it every GCD (the warden is our counter, but every class has to have one imo!) so we can pressure alot and force clerics to do something else than healing and therefor let our teammates perform better (cause their damage isn't healed), it'll be hard(er) for clerics to decide what to do, and if they want to counter us, they can, but they can't heal in the same time, it's a win-win imo for group play.
    I'm afraid that the non-cleric/chloromancer classes will whine cause we get even more burst...

    P.S. the thing with the No-CD cleanse is that you can't do anything besides that, so you make it harder for the sab to get to 5 charges while you can't do much yourself, if you place a dot, the sab gains 1-2 charges, if you heal, the same.
    Last edited by Averitia; 02-14-2011 at 08:25 AM.

  4. #4
    Champion of Telara
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    is sab's blow dmg physical? if not, then i would suggest go for vk and 3k dmg shield

  5. #5
    Telaran
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    It's not one sab vs the rest of the world.
    When opponents are dispelling your charge, your teamates are free.
    When opponents are taking care of your teamates, you can put your charges and dps freely.

  6. #6
    Ascendant Dinadass's Avatar
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    Also keep in mind that sabs can apply a charge every 1.0 second, while the mage and cleric dispellers are on a 1.5 second GCD. Also, dispelling a charge doesn't do anything to the combo point the charge also generated.

    <Ascendant> 13/13 Seastone Defiant

  7. #7
    Plane Touched
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    Quote Originally Posted by pechkin View Post
    is sab's blow dmg physical? if not, then i would suggest go for vk and 3k dmg shield
    Detonate is Physical, but it is such a small % of overall damage when compared to the Charges going off.

    Blast, Spike (Bleed) and Shrapnel (AoE) are Physical damage, Blast being able to bypass 50% of their targets armor if talented. Caltrop, Splinter and Embers are Earth damage. Traps are Physical. All Bombs are Earth, except Fragmentation which is Physical. Land Mines is Earth.

    * A: 1 for 1 charge removal, no cooldown.
    * B: Instant and complete removal of all charges, 45 second cooldown.
    * C: Multiple charges removed over the duration of a spell, 10 second cooldown.
    * D: Removes 1 Disease, Poison, or Curse from up to 10 group/raid members within 15 meters. 10 second cooldown.
    * E: Single target heals have a 25% chance to remove a poison, disease, or curse. An additional effect, not an ability in itself.

    A. These could be annoying to the Sab, but nor more than someone spamming heals on a DPS's target.
    B. These won't be a worry. Sure its a full stack cleanse, but on a decent cooldown. Again, like someone popping a full heal on a target. If a Healer does this, Carpet Bomb them as a way to say thanks. heh
    C. Depending on how determined the Sab is, these will only slow them down, still able to get a full Detonate before the cleanse has recharged (1v1 of course)
    D. iirc, this can only be done after x # of heals (could be wrong, don't feel like looking it up).
    E. Not really a threat. That's like saying this attack might heal the target.

    In the end, I think this is a good counter-balance overall for the Sabs in PvP. Depending on the skill of the players, a good Healer could really hinder a bad Sab, while a good Sab won't be relying 100% on Charges and will be able to sneak in a good pop here and there and will always keep the Healer guessing and on their toes choosing between heals and cleanses. It also eliminates the bad Sabs from PvP that only see the Sab as a 1-trick pony, making PvP more fun for both teams. Nobody wants to team with a noob, and fighting noobs can be easier than PvE, which doesn't make for fun PvP.

  8. #8
    Rift Disciple Intruder313's Avatar
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    Default Nice job

    I'm too new to appreciate the issues people had with Saboteurs and most of this post flies over my head but I still love a well-presented post packed with information.

    Once I play / PvP I will revisit this

  9. #9
    Shadowlander
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    Default I assume pts refunded: would like to say wish role can be reset as well lol

    Quote Originally Posted by Intruder313 View Post
    I'm too new to appreciate the issues people had with Saboteurs and most of this post flies over my head but I still love a well-presented post packed with information.

    Once I play / PvP I will revisit this
    Just for giggles i wish they would allow role srespec as well as in all my souls purged and I get to pick new ones if SAB is in the role

  10. #10
    Telaran Ryalt's Avatar
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    Good guide, should help some people out.

    Having played Sab, it's not a perfect world of blowing people up and not getting killed yourself. But it's a different style of damage than most other classes, and so it leads to some interesting ways of dealing with it.

    I really like Sab, and I'm glad there are some counters to it for skilled players. Because it's nice seeing balance, and intelligent balance at that. Bad healers are still going to die, and bad sabs aren't going to know what to do when their setup doesn't do as much damage as they were expecting.
    Quote Originally Posted by wraith228 View Post
    rogues ran around shootin lightning bolts out of their nuts and clerics had chainsaws for arms

    <Hammered> PvE/PvP-Defiant, EST. Semi-Hardcore.
    is recruiting.

  11. #11
    Rift Chaser Cybaster's Avatar
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    BUMP. The screaming beta 7 babies need to read this.

    "Crito, I owe a **** to Asclepius; will you remember to pay the debt? "
    SUPREME GRILLMASTER of The Enclave

  12. #12
    Shadowlander Bbihah's Avatar
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    Now theres just 2 things that are bugging me so deeply with saboteurs.
    If these things are fixed in one way or another ill be happy.

    1. stealth sap + put charges+ Detonate+ Silence....

    2. Charges last for 60 seconds.

    Charges count as inflicting damage breaking sap?
    Charges last 10 seconds after last application?
    give detonate shorter range now that saboteur synergise very well with assassins?

    Oh how about fixing that press 6 buttons oneshot someone issue?

    I mean it deals physical damage. Oh please, why does it keep on 60-80% tanks then for crying out loud?
    Last edited by Bbihah; 02-16-2011 at 08:55 AM. Reason: Nerf/remove pl0x
    "What if I just want to casualize with randoms and have some random VK sit on me whole night again? It's too OVERPOWERED"
    " This is the most OP skill I've seen in my life and totally ruined my experience as a healer."
    Tolgon Master PVP healer and Professional Video game balancer

  13. #13
    Rift Chaser
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    OOOHH so all i need is a personal HEALER To beat a sab! I never thought about outnumbering someone 2:1 to make it a more fair fight, this changes everything! viva la balance ! So nice of them to buff sabs last patch.

    This is kind of like saying... "If your being grabbed by a shark, punch it in the nose."
    And then some sharks come along and say 'BOLLY! were done gone finished now fer sure what with them knowing what how'n to stop us'n all'
    Last edited by DarkDain; 02-16-2011 at 09:48 AM.

  14. #14
    Shadowlander Bbihah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkDain View Post
    OOOHH so all i need is a personal HEALER To beat a sab! I never thought about outnumbering someone 2:1 to make it a more fair fight, this changes everything! viva la balance ! So nice of them to buff sabs last patch
    OH GOD IT ALL MAKES SENSE NOW! IT ALL SEEMS SO CLEAR! WHY HAVENT WE THOUGHT OF THIS BEFORE?

    Alright people! Remember next time you pvp bring 1 poison dispel bot per saboteur.
    That'll show em!
    "What if I just want to casualize with randoms and have some random VK sit on me whole night again? It's too OVERPOWERED"
    " This is the most OP skill I've seen in my life and totally ruined my experience as a healer."
    Tolgon Master PVP healer and Professional Video game balancer

  15. #15
    Shadowlander TKD Tiger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bbihah View Post
    OH GOD IT ALL MAKES SENSE NOW! IT ALL SEEMS SO CLEAR! WHY HAVENT WE THOUGHT OF THIS BEFORE?

    Alright people! Remember next time you pvp bring 1 poison dispel bot per saboteur.
    That'll show em!
    All things being equal then, how do you beat a MM 1on1?

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