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Thread: Relative Class Potency At Roles

  1. #1
    Plane Touched
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    Default Relative Class Potency At Roles

    Okay, so we know that, in Rift, a Cleric and Rogue has some tanking capability, a Rogue and Mage has some healing capability, ect.

    However, lets say I'm trying to figure out which class is best at what?

    Would you say that this table is accurate? Basically, we're sorting in terms of most to least potent at the designated roles.

    Single Target DPS:
    1. Rogue
    2. Mage
    3. Warrior
    4. Cleric
    Area Of Effect DPS:
    1. Mage
    2. Warrior
    3. Rogue
    4. Cleric
    Tanking:
    1. Warrior
    2. Cleric
    3. Rogue
    4. Mage
    Healing:
    • Cleric
    • Mage
    • Rogue
    • Warrior
    If there was official word on this that'd be useful, but I welcome any community speculation as well.
    Last edited by geldonyetich; 02-13-2011 at 03:17 PM. Reason: Spacing improvements

  2. #2
    Rift Chaser Tenison_Grey's Avatar
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    So far Riftstalker Rogues>Justicar Clerics in terms of tanking. Though in those notes, both souls have received major revisions.

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    Going by what I've personally seen and heard from others you may be a bit off.

    Best single target dps is warrior, closely followed by rogue.

    Best tanking class is Rogue. This is from my own experience, and I have no doubt at high levels with gear for it warriors will be better; too many people would be upset if that was not the case. At the moment however with the levels we have seen in the Beta, Rogues seem to be outperforming, and be much preferred by healers. (Not stating this as fact, merely opinion and hearsay)

    Healing is entirely situational. A chloromancer can be an amazing healer, however it not having as many viable combi-souls, I would imagine it is outstripped by cleric as levels raise. A bard will get the highest 'healing done' score in most warfronts, but this is artificially enhanced by the fact that its almost all aoe healing, and so may never actually save a life.

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    Sword of Telara Fasc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kayim View Post
    too many people would be upset if that was not the case.
    Which would be silly because people need to get it out of their heads that Warrior = Tank and any other paradigm that approaches the role is automatically subpar. Trion set up Clerics and Rogues with Tanking Souls, they are Tanks, and thus if any particular Soul is falling behind too much, Trion can and should take steps to ensure it is viable and competitive at end-game PvE content.

    A Tank is a Tank is a Tank, regardless of the gear they use or the name of their base calling. If a Warrior cannot handle the idea that a Rogue can outperform them and outplay them because Rogues are equally viable Tanks, there are many other MMO's that stick with the classic sacred trinity of class/role combinations.

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    I couldn't agree more. However the dribbling masses will often speak, and it is they they will do so the loudest. I plan on playing a rogue tank, but even in the small time i've been playing i've experienced those who cannot accept this change.

    Here's hoping eh

    (If the patch notes thus far are anything to go by i think Trion have no intention to let any role fall behind purely based on its armour class)
    Last edited by kayim; 02-13-2011 at 03:46 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fasc View Post
    Which would be silly because people need to get it out of their heads that Warrior = Tank and any other paradigm that approaches the role is automatically subpar. Trion set up Clerics and Rogues with Tanking Souls, they are Tanks, and thus if any particular Soul is falling behind too much, Trion can and should take steps to ensure it is viable and competitive at end-game PvE content.

    A Tank is a Tank is a Tank, regardless of the gear they use or the name of their base calling. If a Warrior cannot handle the idea that a Rogue can outperform them and outplay them because Rogues are equally viable Tanks, there are many other MMO's that stick with the classic sacred trinity of class/role combinations.
    True, but you'd figure the guy in full platemail with a giant shield would be able to tank pretty damn good. Just sayin' Some of it has to do with the Souls/balance, the other has to do with finding the right combination of Souls which may not be as straightforward and apparent for some players. I have a few combinations I would like to try, but right now it's nothing more than theory crafting until L50.

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    The way I see it, sure, Trion gave the Cleric and Rogue a tanking soul, but they gave Warrior several such souls, and you'd think that by combining the souls on a Warrior you'd end up with a superior tank.

    The Warrior's going to have more taunts in their abilities in general, as well as the ability to endure magical damage (Void Knight) and the ability to utilize a shield better (Paladin), and so on. Thus, they're probably the best at tanking.

    A Rogue can do some tanking thanks to Riftstalker abilities and Cleric can do some tanking thanks to wearing Chainmail and having a melee soul or two (not sure how much aggro grabbing Clerics have).

    Then you get into how Mages have Elemental Summoners with an Earth summon that has pleanty of aggro grabbing, so it's not that they can't tank either, but they'll probably be at the least best at it.

    I went with a similar way of looking at it when assigning the rank of the other classes as well. Why is a Cleric #1 at healing? Because they've got several souls dedicated to healing, even though the Chloromancer and Bard aren't too shabby at it.

    So it's an interesting balance Rift has here, where everybody can potentially do all the roles in the group, but who's the best at what? I might have missed a few things, so my ranking could very well be wrong.
    Last edited by geldonyetich; 02-13-2011 at 04:00 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclone Jack View Post
    True, but you'd figure the guy in full platemail with a giant shield would be able to tank pretty damn good. Just sayin' Some of it has to do with the Souls/balance, the other has to do with finding the right combination of Souls which may not be as straightforward and apparent for some players. I have a few combinations I would like to try, but right now it's nothing more than theory crafting until L50.
    Thats probably what any disparities between callings are so far. People haven't had chance to find what they like, or what works well. With a rogue tank, its probably a little more straight forward to chose a spec than a warrior, simply due to the choices available.

    As to a fella in full plate being able to tank well, certainly. But better than a lithe warrior who crafts shields of force around his enemy, while blinking around him? I'd say each would be pretty darned effective.

    That there are so many ways to tank in this game is brilliant, but there should hopefully never be one class that is better purely due to its armour class, and the preconceptions of the masses.

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    Quote Originally Posted by geldonyetich View Post
    The way I see it, sure, Trion gave the Cleric and Rogue a tanking soul, but they gave Warrior several such souls, and you'd think that by combining the souls on a Warrior you'd end up with a superior tank. I went with a similar way of looking at it when assigning the rank of the other classes as well, although I might have missed a few things.
    Not necessarily a superior tank, but certainly a more flexible one. If infinite points were available to put into a spec, then sure the warrior would be the best tank. But with an upper limit on the number of points a role can take, multiple options of souls only give you exactly that..options.

    According to most parsings, it seems mage dps is a little lower than was to be expected by people, but its important to note that a lot of mage souls also contain crowd control and other such, none dps involving abilities.

  10. #10
    Plane Walker Kalizaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kayim View Post
    Thats probably what any disparities between callings are so far. People haven't had chance to find what they like, or what works well. With a rogue tank, its probably a little more straight forward to chose a spec than a warrior, simply due to the choices available.

    As to a fella in full plate being able to tank well, certainly. But better than a lithe warrior who crafts shields of force around his enemy, while blinking around him? I'd say each would be pretty darned effective.

    That there are so many ways to tank in this game is brilliant, but there should hopefully never be one class that is better purely due to its armour class, and the preconceptions of the masses.
    Yep, you can either absorb a blow with armor, evade the attack all together, or use some sort of magic to absorb the blow. However you do it yields the same result. You didn't get hurt.

    There's no reason the guy encased in metal should be better at mitigating damage than the other choices.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclone Jack View Post
    True, but you'd figure the guy in full platemail with a giant shield would be able to tank pretty damn good. Just sayin' Some of it has to do with the Souls/balance, the other has to do with finding the right combination of Souls which may not be as straightforward and apparent for some players. I have a few combinations I would like to try, but right now it's nothing more than theory crafting until L50.
    Also, Warriors can really only either DPS or Tank (no healing soul and Warlord is really the only support soul and its kinda heavy on "leading from the front" abilities). I'm not a Trion employee, but I get the feeling that Warriors are meant to be really good at DPS and Tanking to make up for the fact that's all they do.
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  12. #12
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    The OPs table isn't (an can not be ) very accurate.

    the callings (what you refer to as classes) have various souls and combinations of souls, each with a very different focus.

    Now, if you'd like to try to classify each soul on those lists of yours we might actually get somewhere.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kendakon View Post
    The OPs table isn't (an can not be ) very accurate.

    the callings (what you refer to as classes) have various souls and combinations of souls, each with a very different focus.

    Now, if you'd like to try to classify each soul on those lists of yours we might actually get somewhere.
    I (the OP) was well aware of this when I created the thread, but the idea here is that you'd have an intent of being the very best at filling that role and consequently are looking to take the very best souls and class available for that role. This eliminates from the problem the scenario that you would be taking souls that have roles unrelated to the role you're looking to fill. Consequently, it emerges as easily possible to rank the classes by their ability to fulfill those roles in relation to the other classes.

    Not that I'm saying that you can't perform roles other than the one your class I ranked #1 for. You'll note that I didn't put down Mage as "N/A" for tanking. This is because I'm operating under the assumption that the Mage will have some capability to tank. My experiences with a Level 30 Elemental Summoner with a Greater Elemental on a Chloromancer Synthesis healing feedback loop can confirm this. However, I'm not positive this configuration would really be a match for a Warrior, Rogue, and Cleric tanking with the appropriate souls because it seems to me having an actual human direct their threat grabbing would probably be better than relaying on pet taunt timers and I'm pretty sure "pet < player character" in general potency. Consequently, I rank myself at #4 in tanking.

    Furthermore, I can't say I really have a comprehensive grasp of all the abilities of every classes souls or have crunched the numbers well. So I'm hoping for some insight on that.
    Last edited by geldonyetich; 02-13-2011 at 04:24 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wennid View Post
    Also, Warriors can really only either DPS or Tank (no healing soul and Warlord is really the only support soul and its kinda heavy on "leading from the front" abilities). I'm not a Trion employee, but I get the feeling that Warriors are meant to be really good at DPS and Tanking to make up for the fact that's all they do.
    Thats one of the biggest arguments for the warrior archetype being the ''best'' at tanking. It seems a little off that they can only tank or dps, wheras a rogue for instance can tank, dps and support/off heal. The only problem with that argument lies in the point of even including a tanking option if that option will always be subpar. For Trion to promote their soul system, and then allow warriors to be the only possible ''end game'' tanks would be entirely counter to that.

    As i mentioned before, i think the great thing about warrior tanking is its diversity. It can be an awesome anti-magic tank, or a shielding tank etc. The rogue and cleric tanks fill a tanking niche, whereas a warrior can create the niche him/herself.

    As long as this is the case, i think that would be a perfect situation. Warriors are able to fulfil more tanking roles, but will still overall be equal in ability as tanks.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by geldonyetich View Post
    I (the OP) am aware of this, but the idea here is that you'd have an intent of being the very best at filling that role and consequently are looking to take the very best souls and class available for that role.

    This eliminates from the problem the scenario that you would be taking souls that have roles unrelated to the role you're looking to fill and consequently it emerges as possible to rank the classes by their ability to fulfill those roles in relation to the other classes.
    Its important to remember however that a dedicated rogue tank will have zero wasted points, or rather as few as any warrior one would have. A dedicated warrior dps'r will have as much dps soul synergy as a rogue/mage.

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