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Thread: Why healing skills are so boring...?

  1. #1
    Telaran
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    Default Why healing skills are so boring...?

    hey guys,
    i want to start a discussion about damaging, healing and damage protection.

    in rift we have basicly 3 types of healing: direct heal (single and party), HoT (single and party) and absorb.
    similar we got 2 types of dmg: direct damage and indirect damage (both with some elements, aoe, single target etc)

    what happens in pve and pvp is in most cases just a "deal dmg and heal dmg" thing, HoTs for DoT, direct heal for direct damage - end of story.
    why a new "dynamic" mmog ant break with this stuff?
    have a look at guildwars (pls dont discuss here if its mmog or not), there have lots of options to prevent damage.
    we have skill called "guardian" which give 50% block chance for a short amount of time. a "protection spirit" where you can take maximum at 10% of your max hp at once etc.
    those skills all are short buffs and of cours can be debuffed. guildwars was full of those counter-encounter-mechanics and even such skills sounds amazing strong in other mmogs in gw they were just basic and not op in any way.

    in rift we have some defensive skills e.g. side steps on the bladedancer oder healers covanant on the sentinel (which was nerfed for no reason -.-' ). with loooong cool down.
    so if you got focused in rift (special in pvp) you have short amount of time where you can be protected and after its just a dmg vs heal stuff.
    this is so basic and boring its not dynamic at all.
    on the other hand they nerf classes like marksman which can make a 1,4k crit or a saboteur cause they did to much burstdmg. if i as a healer got more option to protect my mates its no need to nerf classes that hard.
    of course sabo charges can be purify which is a bit what i wish for a dynamic fancy healing-system but that kills the class, which isnt mention imo.
    on the other hand such defense "damage avoid"-skills are nerfed and arent as effiencent then pure healing which got lots of gimmick:
    i can improve my next heal spell massivly (warden), i can cast my next heal instant (sentinel), i can stack hots for a big direct heal (warden), but its about HEAL in 90% of the cases and not of preventing dmg.
    this is really sad imo, cause it would bring much more fun to both, healers and attackers, to have more option prevent damage, and buff-removes etc.
    bringing some buff removes and utility can even boost some uncommon classes like the archont or the dominator.
    so bring some damage prevention to the HEALER classes (not to the tank, or dd classes) would bring more teamplay, more dynamic, new builds and imo lots of more fun to any player.

    what do you think about that? you miss some utility or you like healing with 2 or 3 skills?

  2. #2
    Telaran Brutas's Avatar
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    Seems fine with me at the moment, plenty of ways to heal and and deal with damage.
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  3. #3
    Telaran
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    Are you talking about only healer skills of "defensive" skills in general.

    If only healing skills then all we should have to cast on others are heals and absorbs, with the occasional oh-**** button (like Latent Blaze).
    If we are talking in general then the other classes have a lot of damage mitigation or even absorption buffs for their own use. Some may be on long CD's but that is also an issue due to their usage in PvE.


    Personally as a healer I do NOT want to buff someone with a short term block, dodge, parry, resist buff. My job is not to mitigate damage (beyond absorption) my job is to restore it.


    Why don't you give some concrete examples as to more "fun" healing abilities that would be suited within Rift.

  4. #4
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by blacke4dawn View Post
    Are you talking about only healer skills of "defensive" skills in general.

    If only healing skills then all we should have to cast on others are heals and absorbs, with the occasional oh-**** button (like Latent Blaze).
    If we are talking in general then the other classes have a lot of damage mitigation or even absorption buffs for their own use. Some may be on long CD's but that is also an issue due to their usage in PvE.


    Personally as a healer I do NOT want to buff someone with a short term block, dodge, parry, resist buff. My job is not to mitigate damage (beyond absorption) my job is to restore it.


    Why don't you give some concrete examples as to more "fun" healing abilities that would be suited within Rift.
    this is exactly the opposit opinion to mine

    yes i want the other classes to get less protection ans "self care" stuff and bring it to the healer-classes.
    and i want short term buffs and this for some reason.
    i like to play active, not reactive.
    as an example lets take a skill which will increase the block-rate for the next 10secs bei 33%.
    im in bg as a healer and see that a warrior is running straight to my mage. now i can protect the mage and be active, even before any dmg is done (and when the warrior notice the animation of the skill, he can switch target with the headnote, that this skill has 30s recharge and now the warrior pushing another target). so it will be much more dynamic.
    for now its mainly. "oh a warrior, i start hotting or i start my 2or3s healings".
    lets take a skill (as exists but with lol-cd) which prevents 40% dmg for the next 10 secs.
    so saboteurs, marksman and champion arent a big deal anymore. but this just works with prevention and not with healing up.
    so prevention is the key of a good backline imo. as there is leak of prevention skills we got serious balancing issues with some burst-dmg classes, if there would be more prevention, there would be a better balancing with this.

    the purifer has some quiet nice options in here, but unfortunatly they has the cleric as target in most cases. healing blessing for example would be nice skill if i could target any other guy then me, but i cant so i would never skill it. if i got attacked i can select me as fast as no other team mate, so i can heal me direct and dont need the proc of the skill. but for another class it might save some time till i bring a bigger heal. (yes an alternative which works quit this way can be found in the warden tree with the orbs, but why i should skill purifer at all? ;) )
    purifer would be a perfect class for this damage prevention und shortbuff-support. so who want bring direct heal can, and who want prevent dmg can do.
    my point is to create more interaction and synergies between players and classes (not only souls) .

  5. #5
    Telaran
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    Honestly, if you research(ZAM Rift) the later aspects of certain Cleric classes there are many damage mitigation/absorb spells that are tied into heals at later levels...Justicar for instance has a active spell combo just for you.

    Warden: Orbs of stream, Orbs of the Tide
    Sentinel: Protect the Flock, Vigilance, Healers Covenant
    Justicar: Bolt of Radiance+Mien of leadership

  6. #6
    Plane Touched reikazen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LindaFortune View Post
    hey guys,
    i want to start a discussion about damaging, healing and damage protection.

    in rift we have basicly 3 types of healing: direct heal (single and party), HoT (single and party) and absorb.
    similar we got 2 types of dmg: direct damage and indirect damage (both with some elements, aoe, single target etc)

    what happens in pve and pvp is in most cases just a "deal dmg and heal dmg" thing, HoTs for DoT, direct heal for direct damage - end of story.
    why a new "dynamic" mmog ant break with this stuff?
    have a look at guildwars (pls dont discuss here if its mmog or not), there have lots of options to prevent damage.
    we have skill called "guardian" which give 50% block chance for a short amount of time. a "protection spirit" where you can take maximum at 10% of your max hp at once etc.
    those skills all are short buffs and of cours can be debuffed. guildwars was full of those counter-encounter-mechanics and even such skills sounds amazing strong in other mmogs in gw they were just basic and not op in any way.

    in rift we have some defensive skills e.g. side steps on the bladedancer oder healers covanant on the sentinel (which was nerfed for no reason -.-' ). with loooong cool down.
    so if you got focused in rift (special in pvp) you have short amount of time where you can be protected and after its just a dmg vs heal stuff.
    this is so basic and boring its not dynamic at all.
    on the other hand they nerf classes like marksman which can make a 1,4k crit or a saboteur cause they did to much burstdmg. if i as a healer got more option to protect my mates its no need to nerf classes that hard.
    of course sabo charges can be purify which is a bit what i wish for a dynamic fancy healing-system but that kills the class, which isnt mention imo.
    on the other hand such defense "damage avoid"-skills are nerfed and arent as effiencent then pure healing which got lots of gimmick:
    i can improve my next heal spell massivly (warden), i can cast my next heal instant (sentinel), i can stack hots for a big direct heal (warden), but its about HEAL in 90% of the cases and not of preventing dmg.
    this is really sad imo, cause it would bring much more fun to both, healers and attackers, to have more option prevent damage, and buff-removes etc.
    bringing some buff removes and utility can even boost some uncommon classes like the archont or the dominator.
    so bring some damage prevention to the HEALER classes (not to the tank, or dd classes) would bring more teamplay, more dynamic, new builds and imo lots of more fun to any player.

    what do you think about that? you miss some utility or you like healing with 2 or 3 skills?
    guild wars is not a mmorpg
    " Give me a honest guy who is angry alot and who does not like people and isn't afaid to show it, give me one of those, atleast you know what you are getting with a person like that , when it comes to bleeding hearts ,all you end up getting is stabbed in the back,that I can guarantee,there are genuinely nice people there are genuinely nasty people , and then there are the bleeding hearts which are worse"- Totalbiscuit cynicalbrit.com

  7. #7
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by reikazen View Post
    guild wars is not a mmorpg
    Quote Originally Posted by LindaFortune
    have a look at guildwars (pls dont discuss here if its mmog or not),
    reading: fail
    getting a glue of the topic: fail
    +1: done

    anyway question for you: that guildwars is not an mmog, makes a dynamic systemw ith synergies between classes and other defensive skills then "heal x" or "heal y over time" not practicable?
    Last edited by LindaFortune; 02-12-2011 at 09:41 AM.

  8. #8
    Plane Touched reikazen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LindaFortune View Post
    reading: fail
    getting a glue of the topic: fail
    +1: done

    anyway question for you: that guildwars is not an mmog, makes a dynamic systemw ith synergies between classes and other defensive skills then "heal x" or "heal y over time" not practicable?
    No I read it , I just dont like being told what to say tbh
    " Give me a honest guy who is angry alot and who does not like people and isn't afaid to show it, give me one of those, atleast you know what you are getting with a person like that , when it comes to bleeding hearts ,all you end up getting is stabbed in the back,that I can guarantee,there are genuinely nice people there are genuinely nasty people , and then there are the bleeding hearts which are worse"- Totalbiscuit cynicalbrit.com

  9. #9
    Telaran
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    oh brave boy, trouble with the parents?

    may something to topic or just keep up trolling like your profil picture?

  10. #10
    Plane Touched reikazen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LindaFortune View Post
    oh brave boy, trouble with the parents?

    may something to topic or just keep up trolling like your profil picture?
    Jokes on you because I no longer work with my mother! HA!
    " Give me a honest guy who is angry alot and who does not like people and isn't afaid to show it, give me one of those, atleast you know what you are getting with a person like that , when it comes to bleeding hearts ,all you end up getting is stabbed in the back,that I can guarantee,there are genuinely nice people there are genuinely nasty people , and then there are the bleeding hearts which are worse"- Totalbiscuit cynicalbrit.com

  11. #11
    Plane Walker
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    Quote Originally Posted by LindaFortune View Post
    oh brave boy, trouble with the parents?

    may something to topic or just keep up trolling like your profil picture?
    Clerics are meant to heal damage, not mitigate it.
    Many of those mitigation spells were added to the other classes and are self only.
    This takes reliance off of clerics for good timing so they can focus on their role and let the player themselves decide when to use their mitigation abilities.

  12. #12
    Rift Disciple
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    the problem with active "healing" is that it requires more skill. End of story.
    You cant play as a robot watching healthbars, you have to check your surrounding. 80% of the ppl would whine about "healing" too hard to do, and they either ragequit or reroll. Either way there wont be enough "healer" ingame.

    But if a gameplay mechanic like this would be introduced in a new MMO id roll a healer in that game for sure.

  13. #13
    Plane Touched Defx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LindaFortune View Post
    hey guys,
    i want to start a discussion about damaging, healing and damage protection.
    If I understand your post correctly, it sounds like you want "healers" to be able to cause their groupmates to not take damage, rather than have to heal the damage they take?

    First off, I disagree with your assessment that healing is boring. If one thinks that healing is boring, there are other classes for one to play. I happen to enjoy healing and take a lot of pride in being able to keep my group alive with my healing.

    Sure, healing classes should have some damage protection, and they do, so IMO the point is moot. However, damage protection shouldn't be the sole responsibility of the healer. Every class should, and I'm pretty does, have their own damage protection. Rather than the healer saying "oh, ****! Player 3 is in trouble, I need to give him some damage protection!," it should be the responsibility of Player 3 to say, "oh, ****! I'm in trouble! I need to use my damage protection to give my healer a chance to heal me!" If player 3 isn't smart enough to stop spamming #2 and help himself and his healer out, then he probably deserves to die anyway.

    Also, I feel that healing is already the most dynamic role in any MMO. The healer is assessing and managing the entire situation at all times; he has to be aware of where every group member is and what they are doing, as well as where every enemy is and what they are doing. HoTs and insta-cast abilities further enhance the dynamics of the healer, because it increases mobility. The healer can always be on the move, while stopping to cast direct heals when needed. That mobility is essential to the first point of managing the situation and knowing where your group members are.

  14. #14
    Soulwalker
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    Ah Guild Wars.. I miss that game.

    Guardian, both the original form of Aegis and the revamped Aegis, Reversal of Fortune, Protective Spirit, Spirit Bond... Abilities like these were absolutely brilliant. Protection Monks have been the pinnacle of RPG Healer design since Guild Wars was first released and there has yet to be anything that really comes close. I loved playing RC Prot in 8v8, talk about having to have situational awareness.

    The closest you will be able to come to playing a mitigation support class in Rift akin to protmonk would be some sort of defensive Warrior build with the PVP soul (Vindicator). It will still feel hollow compared to a GW monk though.

  15. #15
    Champion Siveon's Avatar
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    I am not a healer but from what i see i think healing/protection needs some variation, here are some examples:
    • Some spells such as "Healing showers" would be more fun if they were "Selectable area AOE", similar to offensive AOE where you select the area of effect instead of around the caster or around the target.
    • Would be fun to see some healing spells that spawned like a magic ball that remained on the ground for several second or until stepped upon healing if it was a friend or slowing/damaging if it was a enemy.
    • Channeled spell that summons a magical wall in the selected area that acted as a impassible area where ranged spells would fail and players needed to run around. (maybe this could be better suited for a paladin)

    But anyway just wanted to show that it does not just have to be simple direct healing or healing over time, i am sure Trion designers are professionals so figure something new and exciting ways to heal other then looking at health bars.
    * LAG is when you get latency related problems. (such as teleporting)
    * Low FPS(Frames Per Second) is when the game starts to stutter and it looks like pictures instead of fluid movement.

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