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Thread: Concern

  1. #1
    Soulwalker
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    Default Concern

    This is not a QQ. Nor do I intend to *****. But I would like to voice my concerns.
    So far, I have been extremely impressed with both the game and with the devs attention to player concerns. VERY impressed. Now, I have been playing mmo's for more years than my wife would like to admit to, that may be shocking to some of you if you knew that I was a grandfather.

    Now the point of this thread, I am a solo player. I have been in many guilds over the years, but I still play solo most of the time. I also LOVE to create characters. I mix, match, tweak, do everything I can to create the best possible character using the tools I am given. Shadowbane was nirvana to me. Rift looked like the second coming.
    During beta 5, I decided rogues were op(primarily ranger/mm), warriors were cool, and Mages sucked. Didnt try clerics.

    Then came beta 6. Rogues sucked, warriors more so(and I am usually a warrior class), mages still did. I had just made a cleric from desperation to find a way to stay alive. Unfortunately the beta ended before I could really test it out. Now none of these toons even made it to level 20. I understand that many people were playing much higher level characters from previous beta's. But a new character has to be able to achieve higher levels to benefit from higher abilities.

    I am left with three possible conclusions, 1) I suck and dont understand how to mix the souls. 2) Trion nerfed all classes damage. 3) The npc mobs had a strike and got better ai and damage.

    Number one I can fix with time. But if two or three are the case, does Trion intend to rectify this in the near future? And by near future, I mean before open beta?

  2. #2
    Telaran
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    I'm going to say it was a mix of options 1 and 3.

    I ran up a rogue to 16 just to test out bard (which was quite good in B6) in the lower level warfront bracket, as well as running around with my lower level chloro and warrior (champ/riftblade/paragon, focus in champ/riftblade), and my main rogue and cleric.

    What were you playing as, out of curiosity? I didn't notice a huge problem, although the dungeon mobs hit a bit harder now.
    Last edited by ArcaneTrixter; 02-11-2011 at 09:25 PM.
    Reason is a choice. Wishes and whims are not facts, nor are they a means to discovering them. Reason is our only way of grasping reality; it is our basic tool of survival. We are free to evade the effort of thinking, to reject reason, but we are not free to avoid the penalty of the abyss we refuse to see. ~Terry Goodkind, Faith of the Fallen

  3. #3
    Soulwalker
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    In 5, I mainly played an op ranger/mm/riftstalker. He was a lot of fun, but in 6 he could not stay alive. I also played a champ that was pretty nice in 5 but could do no damage nor stay alive in 6. So I did a lot of forum reading and made a VK. He was a blast, specially if he went up against a mage type. He could hold his own with one melee mob, but if a second one showed up, he was toast.
    Which is basicly what my problem was with all my characters. One on one, ok. But none of them could stand up to two or more mobs. Yea, a rogue really shouldnt be able to, although he should have the cc available to him to deter some of them so he could concentrate on one. But warriors are supposed to be in the thick of battle, they should be able to handle multiple enemies.
    I did not keep up with any notes on changes between betas, but it seemed to me that everything got a major nerf job between 5 and 6.

  4. #4
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by surBear View Post
    In 5, I mainly played an op ranger/mm/riftstalker. He was a lot of fun, but in 6 he could not stay alive. I also played a champ that was pretty nice in 5 but could do no damage nor stay alive in 6. So I did a lot of forum reading and made a VK. He was a blast, specially if he went up against a mage type. He could hold his own with one melee mob, but if a second one showed up, he was toast.
    Which is basicly what my problem was with all my characters. One on one, ok. But none of them could stand up to two or more mobs. Yea, a rogue really shouldnt be able to, although he should have the cc available to him to deter some of them so he could concentrate on one. But warriors are supposed to be in the thick of battle, they should be able to handle multiple enemies.
    I did not keep up with any notes on changes between betas, but it seemed to me that everything got a major nerf job between 5 and 6.
    I definitely wouldn't have gone with ranger/mm/riftstalker, but that's just me. Were you fighting elites, that none of your characters could take more than one mob at a time?
    Reason is a choice. Wishes and whims are not facts, nor are they a means to discovering them. Reason is our only way of grasping reality; it is our basic tool of survival. We are free to evade the effort of thinking, to reject reason, but we are not free to avoid the penalty of the abyss we refuse to see. ~Terry Goodkind, Faith of the Fallen

  5. #5
    Soulwalker
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    At times, but that wasnt my concern. Most of the time I died to quest mobs. My level too.

  6. #6
    Telaran
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    Were you terribly undergeared? Did you not put points in your abilities ("talents" from a certain other game)? I haven't seen anyone fail at equal level quest mobs 1v1.
    Reason is a choice. Wishes and whims are not facts, nor are they a means to discovering them. Reason is our only way of grasping reality; it is our basic tool of survival. We are free to evade the effort of thinking, to reject reason, but we are not free to avoid the penalty of the abyss we refuse to see. ~Terry Goodkind, Faith of the Fallen

  7. #7
    Ascendant Corwynn_Maelstrom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by surBear View Post
    2) Trion nerfed all classes damage. 3) The npc mobs had a strike and got better ai and damage.

    Number one I can fix with time. But if two or three are the case, does Trion intend to rectify this in the near future? And by near future, I mean before open beta?
    A quick glance at the patch notes would tell you that 2 and 3 were correct to some extent.

    Official B7 patch notes are unreleased, B6 wrapup addresses continued tuning on Alpha seeking proper mob difficulty.

    So expect B7 to be different than B5 and B6 yes.
    Senior Officer of Legend ( Endless US PvE )

  8. #8
    Plane Touched Soull's Avatar
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    mm/ranger/rs isn't that horrible tbh. i'm betting he had at most 5 points in RS for the ap boost, but more likely zero points for the port for kiting. bascially, pet for tanking, swift or quick shot and empowered shot for cp builders, dead eye shot for a finisher, crippling shot to kite if the pet dies.

    when solo'ing, i did have to heal my pet more often in beta 6 rather than 5. not too terrible actually, just noticed it.

    my one question to the OP is, did you train up your skills, or were you using just the first ranks of your abilities? i tried a mm/ranger/rs build for a bit, and did quite well with it in the 30's. and my gear was pretty much quest gear and whatever i could find on mobs.

  9. #9
    Soulwalker
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    Rogues are a tricky bunch. I leveled one up from 1 to about 26 during that beta, and it was a blast. I only soloed with a few specific souls (and I'm a purist- I have trouble splitting up my points across three souls unless every point benefits my MAIN soul).

    These were the souls and builds I was experimenting with at 20.

    If you are specializing in Bard, use this
    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0M...dqiqskqz.Vh.VM.

    Spam Cadence = win. I've handled up to three mobs at once. It was close, but the healing done is enough to keep you alive.

    Maining as a Sabo, use this.
    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0MTMN.VcRcq.0V
    Silent setup + entangling trap. Build up charges on two creatures, set entangling trap so that one gets rooted. Detonate the one to be rooted, then detonate the creature that will NOT be rooted. Stack charges on the incoming and detonate till dead. Switch targets. Generally enough to kill anything. Entangling trap is also good if you are unexpectedly attacked by a second mob unexpectedly, since the cast timer is only 1 second

    Using Ranger/MM/Riftstalker to solo, I used ->
    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0MfpN.VhkR.V.VMo

    My focus was on kiting. Crippling shot -> Splinter Shot -> Empowered Shot -> Hasted Shot.
    Throw in your pet to attack an add if you get one and keep him healed while kiting the main mob. Seemed to work pretty well. If something closes in too close, combine Repelling Shot -> Crippling Shot -> Turn 180 degrees and Shadow Shift. This creates a good amount of distance.

  10. #10
    Soulwalker
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    I had trains in ranger and mm, none in rs as of yet. And yes, I noticed my pet died a lot more in 6 also, wasnt sure if it was from changes or from higher/harder levels.

    To Corwynn: thanks. My mind is at ease.

    To Trixter: I was in quest gear. And a few good quest drops. As for that 'other' game, I never played it. I have played a LOT of mmo's, but I saw what that game was like when my grandkids played it, it never appealed to me.

  11. #11
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by surBear View Post
    To Trixter: I was in quest gear. And a few good quest drops. As for that 'other' game, I never played it. I have played a LOT of mmo's, but I saw what that game was like when my grandkids played it, it never appealed to me.
    I was more or less asking if you actually put the points in. I still haven't figured out exactly what to call the point tree abilities that aren't roots in normal conversation. I ran into a few people who missed that, and I was surprised they made it as far as they did (RotF) without them.

    If you trained skills, had points in, and were wearing decent gear, I honestly don't know :x
    Reason is a choice. Wishes and whims are not facts, nor are they a means to discovering them. Reason is our only way of grasping reality; it is our basic tool of survival. We are free to evade the effort of thinking, to reject reason, but we are not free to avoid the penalty of the abyss we refuse to see. ~Terry Goodkind, Faith of the Fallen

  12. #12
    Shadowlander
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    Well deffinately #3 since in beta 6, you can read from the patch notes, the Devs did give mobs more health and more damage across the board, not just in dungeons. I think elite mobs got bumped a higher percentage than the others from personal experience.

    They are obviously still tweaking the strength of mobs, I expect the difficulty to be tuned down just ever so slightly, though can't say for certain what will really happen between now and launch of course.

    Warriors are actually doing really well right now. I am not saying you suck, not knowing what soul builds you tried, there are some souls that don't do well early on, and would say the Paladin and beastmaster take until level 26 and 21 respectively before they start to work out well as a primary choice. Warlord you should avoid completely since you like to solo. Also don't spread your points too thin between 3 different souls. I would suggest keeping your primary soul with full points for your level, then putting the rest into one secondary soul with your 3rd choice just for whatever free skill you like to have added in and no points spent in it.

    edit: see you went champ, having a really good weapon makes all the difference in the world, make sure you have a blue weapon near your level and other than focusing your points in champ, not sure what else could be wrong
    Last edited by Wohden; 02-11-2011 at 10:50 PM.

  13. #13
    Plane Walker Annabella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by surBear View Post
    T

    Then came beta 6. Rogues sucked, warriors more so(and I am usually a warrior class), mages still did.

    I am left with three possible conclusions, 1) I suck and dont understand how to mix the souls. 2) Trion nerfed all classes damage. 3) The npc mobs had a strike and got better ai and damage.
    What is it about rogues that sucked for you? I was just as much in love with my rogue in Beta 6 as I was in Beta 5 and before... I'm a PVE player and soloed most of the time except for when I was in public groups...


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  14. #14
    Telaran QuietEcho's Avatar
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    Unfortunately I focused on the Mage and Cleric, however pets did get a reduction if you were relying on that. I had no problems soloing the cleric from 9 to 21 using a dps spec during the last 1 1/2 days, with a quick break to try out a healing spec and heal a dungeon.

    The mage.. still no issues.. I realize a lot of others have had issues with it.. but I've had no issues solo questing. My souls were Stormcaller/Elementalist/(never did use the third soul abilities).
    Quiet echoes in the wind, spoken words that won't rescind.

  15. #15
    Telaran
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    There was a pretty significant change in mob difficulty from B5 to B6. I noticed it the second I signed in and started playing. It effected some classes more than others, mainly those who rely on killing mobs quickly because they have low defense. With the buff to mob damage and health it meant that taking them down was harder, and they hit harder, so relying on blasting them before they blasted you became a suicide mission, even with only two mobs around my level.

    My Cleric caster had a really hard time at first (lvl 30 Inquisitor/Cab/Ward). One mob around my level (even a few below) was a challenge and two was certain death, whereas before I could easily handle 3-4 mobs a few levels above me in B5. What I ended up doing was switching out my Cabalist soul for another healing soul and using full points into Inquisitor with extras into Sentinel. That helped a lot, since I had enough heals available between the 0 pt Warden and 10 point Sentinel to survive 2-3 mobs, especially launching Soul Drain every time it was ready.

    Now, that said, my Shaman/Justicar/Druid build had no problems whatsoever in B6. I almost couldn't even tell a difference, since I could take 3 mobs my level or slightly above with no real issue and even handle some adds on top of that if a patrol jumped me while I was in the middle of battle. Having a spammable AoE melee attack plus the heals from Justicar was priceless, and gaining mana on critical hits kept me from running out and being left with nothing but auto attacks.

    So, yes, they did buff the mobs significantly from B5 to B6, and they are working on tuning mob difficulty for B7 and launch. Server metrics will decide the balance more than anything, I'm sure. Regardless of where the balancing ends up some builds are going to feel it way more than others, especially at lower levels where you have access to fewer skills. Just keep experimenting until you find a build that works for you, and try to work through those awkward lower levels so you can get the skills that make survival a lot easier.

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