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Thread: A Perspective on Balance/Gameplay from a World Class WoW Raider

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    Telaran Asmodeon's Avatar
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    Default A Perspective on Balance/Gameplay from an Accidentally Offensive Person :O

    *edit* Apologies to all I offended, this thread was just meant as a reminder of what many betas are like. I've edited out the unintended self righteousness/bragging. It wasn't meant as such.

    ~Thoughts on the State of the Game and Some People's Reaction to It~
    This is a topic that has obviously been discussed in the past. It's being debated heatedly at the moment, and still will be long after this post is forgotten in the endless tirade of new threads. Nevertheless, I still feel that it would be worthwhile to offer some insight from a possibly different perspective (someone who has put a bit too much time into playing video games, to sum it up without fanfare).

    ~TL/DR~
    Less QQ, more...remembering what your average game is like while still in beta.

    ~The Great Wall of Text~
    To start, I began my WoW career while it was still in its initial beta. I invite any of you who played WoW during that time, especially those who complain about the current state of Rift, to think back and remember that era. In particular, recall one of the most basic functions of any online game: the log in system. Do the words "estimated wait time in que: 6 hours" bring back any memories? WoW servers were often loaded to the max, unstable and quite often unplayable. You would come back from a day at school, ready to collect random large and abstract objects from the intestines of animals (how DID that Rusted Chainmail Hauberk of Terrible Stats get inside of that level 6 Fledgling Spider baby?), only to come face to face with your beloved game saying, "LOLZ dude, gimme like 4 hours. You paid to play during this time? kekeke, UMADBRO?". That was that, and there was nothing to be done about it, aside from rolling an alt on some God-forsaken PvP-RP server. So we almost got around to doing our homework while we kept up to date on our server's que and silently accepted our lot in life.
    That was about six years ago. I joined Rift in the last beta section (5 I think) and all I have to say, aside from everything ELSE I have to say, is this: "WHY ARE SOME PEOPLE COMPLAINING?!" Most people unconsciously (or otherwise) expect perfection in a product they purchase, and maybe it's their right to do so, but that often doesn't match up with the real world. The more complex the product, the harder it will be to perfect and/or to please all of the consumers purchasing it. If Rift was essentially the same game, without the level of character customization and freedom, it would still require weeks, months or years to balance; with the Soul Tree system, it will most certainly be years.
    I was hooked to this game within minutes. I started the game up, had a blast customizing my character, and then dove straight into the gameplay. This is something that most people take for granted these days, and they should after six, eight, ten years of MMO progress, but my first day spent actually testing and playing everything I could was awesome. Rift has taken the lessons of other MMOs to heart. I immediately noticed you could almost completely customize your UI...for me, that was HUGE, as I've loved modding my UI in WoW. From here on I could recite the many ways in which Rift impressed me but you obviously get my point by now. Without taking the graphics, artistic style, story, leveling system or Rift openings into account (which were all great), the game on a basic level worked splendidly. I found a few bugs, but this is still the beta! No game purges every mistake and error before release, and NO MMO ever does so completely.
    The drawn out and rambling point I'm trying to make is that things CAN always be better but you damn well better believe that they can always be worse too, and often are. With regard to MMO games, I think people should remember what their (possible) other favorite MMOs started out as, and what they're like at the moment. WoW is easily the most successful MMO ever created, and I've played it through every point in its long, tumultuous balancing act. So my experience in Rift, during its beta, has been pleasant, impressive and addicting, and has been the only MMO to make me want to switch games in over 6 years of playing WoW (*edit* people seem to think that WoW is the only game I've ever played; in fact I've played many, but this example was directed at the MMO genre specifically).
    I would counsel people to have patience: the game isn't finished yet! It's hardly even begun, so try to see it in the big picture. I have no idea if Rift will withstand the test of time and emerge as successful MMO, or crash and burn like so many before it, but I'm gunna enjoy the ride in the meantime. The game works quite beautifully, it looks great, and most of all...it's seriously fun (for the record, I play a Mage). When recommending this game to others, I'm going to simply tell them that the game is great and that they should at least try it for themselves. I have faith that the latter part will do all the talking needed.
    Last edited by Asmodeon; 02-11-2011 at 12:49 PM.
    'Til shade is gone, 'til water is gone; into the Blight with teeth bared, to spit in Sightblinder's eye on the Last Day.

  2. #2
    Telaran
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    I certainly remember the hilariously bad technical issues WoW had at launch.

    As an example they comped every single account on Archimonde (the original PvP server) a WEEK of playtime because they had to take it down to upgrade the hardware and it STILL was a lagfest for the next year in BRM/MC/BWL.

    RIFT reminds me of Vanilla WoW minus the glaring technical issues. Sure there is lots of straight up broken stuff balance wise but the game is stable, the content is in place and you can go and have a fun time without wanting to slam your head against the keyboard in frustration due to things out of your control.

  3. #3
    Telaran
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    no disrespect but why preface what your syaing with ... world class wow gamer.

    wow you killed arthas ( i am happy for you, i killed him to) but just post your thoughts and move on.

    frankly, once this game comes out we all are gonna be noobs.. had decent points in their and i read the wall of text but man it irked my nerves of how people have to validate their credibilty by saying " i did this in a previous game"

    that would make me, if i did the same thing a above average pvper bc my arena rating proves it, an above avg pve-er .
    it may seem like a flame which it inst ( or maybe its bc i just got finished running 5mi and im smoked)

    i just think your thoughts would garner a lot more attention by just stating what you mean without prefacing it with you accomplishments for a game that once this game comes out wont even matter. because we all will be on a same playing field.

  4. #4
    Rift Chaser OdinTGE's Avatar
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    I've played every major, and some minor, MMOs that have launched since SWG. I played the betas of many of those. Rift is more polished now, before its launch, than every single other MMO I've seen 1-3 months post launch.

    Even if the game itself wasn't to my liking I'd still probably hang around just to see where a company capable of that feat was going with things.


    Quote Originally Posted by Zeeg View Post
    no disrespect but why preface what your syaing with ... world class wow gamer.
    Because it shows he's been around to see what goes on in the MMO world. Making observations and points from the perspective of a 6+ year veteran of the genre has different weight than some guy who just found out the webternets had pixel dragons.

    In addition, somebody who's been wiping to 5 mans for 6 years honestly doesn't get to have as much say in the way things are as somebody who's been on the leading edge of progression. That's just how it is.
    Last edited by OdinTGE; 02-11-2011 at 07:37 AM.

  5. #5
    Shield of Telara Arieste's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asmodeon View Post
    ***deleted***
    ~Thoughts on the State of the Game and Some People's Reaction to It~
    ***deleted***

    I joined Rift in the last beta section (5 I think) and all I have to say, aside from everything ELSE I have to say, is this: "WHY ARE SOME PEOPLE COMPLAINING?!" Most people unconsciously (or otherwise) expect perfection in a product they purchase, and maybe it's their right to do so, but that often doesn't match up with the real world. The more complex the product, the harder it will be to perfect and/or to please all of the consumers purchasing it. If Rift was essentially the same game, without the level of character customization and freedom, it would still require weeks, months or years to balance; with the Soul Tree system, it will most certainly be years.

    I was hooked to this game within minutes. I started the game up, had a blast customizing my character, and then dove straight into the gameplay. This is something that most people take for granted these days, and they should after six, eight, ten years of MMO progress, but my first day spent actually testing and playing everything I could was awesome.

    Rift has taken the lessons of other MMOs to heart. I immediately noticed you could almost completely customize your UI...for me, that was HUGE. As a professional raider, of sorts, customizing my UI is a necessity, as well as something I enjoy greatly. From here on I could recite the many ways in which Rift impressed me but you obviously get my point by now.

    Without taking the graphics, artistic style, story, leveling system or Rift openings into account (which were all great), the game on a basic level worked splendidly. I found a few bugs, but this is still the beta! No game purges every mistake and error before release, and NO MMO ever does so completely.

    The drawn out and rambling point I'm trying to make is that things CAN always be better but you damn well better believe that they can always be worse too, and often are. With regard to MMO games, I think people should remember what their (possible) other favorite MMOs started out as, and what they're like at the moment. ***deleted***

    So my experience in Rift, during its beta, has been pleasant, impressive and addicting, and has been the only MMO to make me want to switch games in over 6 years of playing WoW (of similar game-type that is; I'm also a 2800 Diamond Zerg in SC2).

    I would counsel people to have patience: the game isn't finished yet! It's hardly even begun, so try to see it in the big picture. I have no idea if Rift will withstand the test of time and emerge as successful MMO, or crash and burn like so many before it, but I'm gunna enjoy the ride in the meantime. The game works quite beautifully, it looks great, and most of all...it's seriously fun (for the record, I play a Mage). When recommending this game to others, I'm going to simply tell them that the game is great and that they should at least try it for themselves. I have faith that the latter part will do all the talking needed.

    ***deleted***
    OP de-WoWified.
    Last edited by Arieste; 02-11-2011 at 07:46 AM.
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  6. #6
    Rift Chaser omgitslos's Avatar
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    A very good thread

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    Plane Walker Dwarflord's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arieste View Post
    OP de-WoWified.
    Thanks. Much more readable without all that garbage. Still could use some more paragraphs though.

  8. #8
    Soulwalker
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    Okay, first off..... rofl. much better version. No flame intended but wow has never impressed me in the slightest. Ive found that, honestly, with wow as long as you show up, you can raid high end. Doesnt take too much talent, just a lot of time. but thats my humble opinion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Arieste View Post
    OP de-WoWified.
    Oh and on another note... Yeah i think the prefacing with "xxxxxx" of how great you are in a game is a bit much. Im not impressed by grand accomplishments in a game, as i said before, just takes time. I never raided high end in the games ive played, but what i did do is learn my toons and learn them really well so i played them better than anyone else at my level. Im much more impressed with someone who knows the classes in depth and knows how they work, thats the true talent of an mmoer IMO.
    Last edited by J_rush; 02-11-2011 at 08:01 AM.

  9. #9
    Prophet of Telara Albane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arieste View Post
    OP de-WoWified.
    Thanks Arieste. I skipped over most of his post, because it looked like bragging, and not even good bragging.

  10. #10
    Plane Walker
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    I agree with the OP's points, but I could care less what he did in WoW, and it doesnt lend him any credibility in my eyes. In fact the main thing it does is make me think he plays video games way too much.
    Eol, Chloromancer and Justinian, Inquistor, Guardians of Faeblight.
    Previous incarnations include: Camring and Camran, SWTOR; Ceol & Duri - LotRO; Eol - L2; Kili - WoW; Camring - SWG; Justinian, Camring - DAoC

  11. #11
    Telaran droenn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arieste View Post
    OP de-WoWified.
    Now Zeeg can stop complaining :P

  12. #12
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by droenn View Post
    Now Zeeg can stop complaining :P
    hah, not complaining man i am err was a casual player that managed to get top end achievements both pvp wise and pve wise i just think that in this new game sure you want to validate your knowledge but its beta man... just stick to the present facts of how they are presented.

    was a decent read like i said and for the most part i concur, i feel ya, im on your side... but dont bring an outside accomplishment from a game when in about a week or so man we all gonna be at low end of the totem poll.

    lol and i missed your sarcasm.. so drive on lol
    Last edited by Zeeg; 02-11-2011 at 08:18 AM.

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    Rift Chaser OdinTGE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by J_rush View Post
    Okay, first off..... rofl. much better version. No flame intended but wow has never impressed me in the slightest. Ive found that, honestly, with wow as long as you show up, you can raid high end. Doesnt take too much talent, just a lot of time. but thats my humble opinion.
    Your 'opinion' is entirely wrong. There's a reason there are thousands and thousands of guilds struggling in mediocrity and a couple hundred raiding correctly. Turns out it's not so easy and 'dumbed down' as everybody wants to say it is.

  14. #14
    Rift Disciple Intruder313's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ceol View Post
    I agree with the OP's points, but I could care less what he did in WoW, and it doesnt lend him any credibility in my eyes. In fact the main thing it does is make me think he plays video games way too much.
    That made me laugh when I noticed that you not only attached a footer to your post but in that footer you listed your character names for 5 MMOs! :P

    Anyway the OP makes some good points though he does also make a few irrelevant brags :P
    World-Class Guild / WoW Warlock DPS feats mean nothing against general impressions of the Rift Beta and its stability. I WOULD be in interested in his insights into Rift's mechanics later on,
    especially Mages etc which would make a nice, direct comparison to his WoW character.

  15. #15
    Ascendant
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    isnt being world class at PVE like an oxymoron or something.

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