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Thread: I would like to see a BloodMage type class

  1. #31
    Ascendant Kalbuir's Avatar
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    No offense to the dsc fans but I do not think you can compare them with Blood Mages especially not if you look like a game like VG. I admit that the dsc in war used lifetaps and to some degree they are comparable but they way you played each is fundamentally different.

    While a BMG in VG shone in both melee range and caster range I think we can all agree we where slightly overpowered with Serak's Mantle. The BMG was the caster healer in its purest form, the dsc however did a set amount of heals based on vit and large amount of hots.

    Where a BMG's healing was directly calculated from the damage they did.

    Regards,
    Kalbuir

  2. #32
    Plane Walker Evereghalo's Avatar
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    I do not see it happening because there is already a Warlock, and most likely a Necromancer. I think it would be a miss if all the Mage Arch was evil.

    I do see a clerik class that does a lot of healing by stealing life from targets to heal. However Blood Mage would be a misnomer under the cleric arch.

  3. #33
    Ascendant Kalbuir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evereghalo View Post
    I do not see it happening because there is already a Warlock, and most likely a Necromancer. I think it would be a miss if all the Mage Arch was evil.

    I do see a clerik class that does a lot of healing by stealing life from targets to heal. However Blood Mage would be a misnomer under the cleric arch.
    I think classifying a Blood Mage as a caster is a mistake unless you compare it to the Blood Mage from Dragon Age I earlier mentioned. Then I would agree with you in your statement and say a Necromancer and Warlock more or less already cover the dark / evil magic arts.

    However the Blood Mage most people in this thread love is not nececarily evil, in VG it has been described as more of a mad professor than an evil sorcerer (I think it was Itchy the lore dev but could have been someone else, was on a podcast if I remember correct).

    Additionally we have more or less had the confirmation there will be cloth healers meaning that it is entirely possible we will see healers that lean to mages in some form or another. It might not be evil or blood magic and I think most of us would be fine with that I think I speak for every BMG when I say it was more about how we healed than the lore around it. (which I described in detail in my earlier post in this thread)

    Regards,
    Kalbuir

  4. #34
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    I'd vote for it. Then again, I'm a big fan of classes that take old concepts and modify them to something else. In truth, I grew up in a family that played D&D... the "generic" classes that have become the fantasy/MMO standard have long since lost their magic with me.

    I'd be more than happy to see a class like the Blood Mage go in. Vanguard, if nothing else, was always good about making classes unique.

  5. #35
    Ascendant popsicledeath's Avatar
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    I hope there's a life-tapping healer of sorts (it's hard to have any 'names' for all the potential sub-classes in Rift, kinda). I just hope it isn't as powerful as the blood mage from Vanguard.

    I played and loved-to-deaths my Blood Mage in Vanguard from the early days when it was impossible to find a group because everyone was sure blood mages sucked and I was shouted down and called a liar on the blood mage forums when I mentioned others must be doing something wrong because I was soloing 4 and 5 dots for exp/loot at mid levels with fairly generic gear... but yeah, that was the problem, I was pulling off things I felt guilty about. All within the constraints of the class, but still!

    I think that was the boon and detriment of the class, though. Its effectiveness was highly dependent on the skill of the player. Great in principle, and something I loved about Vanguard in general with so many classes have such a wide range of 'good' being dependent on skill and not just class or gear.

    In practice, though, it was overpowered and I can admit that. I loved how many 'tools' the blood mage got, but if one could use them properly it was a house of ownage and the cap on how good the class could be was very, very high (much higher, imo, than the range for other classes that did hit a lower relative ceiling).

    I mean, by the time I got to raiding I thought I was doing something wrong, and others probably thought I was cheating, because I could almost always get near the top of dps charts (and I wasn't a slack-healer, neither!). There were several instances where I ended up as the only healer left alive (a few times on that one boss near the airship that had a frontal stun, which wasn't the hardest raid boss ever, but still not something I should have been able to practically solo heal with no raid gear!).

    Granted, I was a bit of an overachiever when it came to dissecting the class. At one point, on top of getting a nice tap, dd and dot rotation going so everything was always hitting... I macroed in weapon swaps with staffs to fire off clicky damage spells, as well as triggering on melee to get a few staff hits in every few spells. Yeah, I was that anal and inventive.. but able to max out the class while always being under-geared compared to others. I felt guilty taking gear on top of it all... :P

    Anyhow, enough poetical waxing... I loved the class, and think a lot of the power was balanced by the [many!] risks the blood mage had to take... and the power was often well deserved, as there was no worse a class in vanguard than a poorly played blood mage... still, I hope in Riftpot if they do have a life-tap healing sort of method, it's more well balanced.

    Also, that way over time everyone and their effing dog won't be like "oh, I have a BM alt too!" forcing m to respond "this isn't my alt, dork, and stop calling it BM it sounds like my grandmother talking about her bathroom behavior!" Err, I mean, "I'm going to make a light-armor wearing life-tap healing caster variant as well..." or whatever it'd be...

    And I hope they have unicorns and gnomes! Rawr.

    In conclusion, I'm glad to find fellow BMG lovers in this big wide world

  6. #36
    Ascendant Kalbuir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by popsicledeath View Post
    I hope there's a life-tapping healer of sorts (it's hard to have any 'names' for all the potential sub-classes in Rift, kinda). I just hope it isn't as powerful as the blood mage from Vanguard.

    I played and loved-to-deaths my Blood Mage in Vanguard from the early days when it was impossible to find a group because everyone was sure blood mages sucked and I was shouted down and called a liar on the blood mage forums when I mentioned others must be doing something wrong because I was soloing 4 and 5 dots for exp/loot at mid levels with fairly generic gear... but yeah, that was the problem, I was pulling off things I felt guilty about. All within the constraints of the class, but still!

    I think that was the boon and detriment of the class, though. Its effectiveness was highly dependent on the skill of the player. Great in principle, and something I loved about Vanguard in general with so many classes have such a wide range of 'good' being dependent on skill and not just class or gear.

    In practice, though, it was overpowered and I can admit that. I loved how many 'tools' the blood mage got, but if one could use them properly it was a house of ownage and the cap on how good the class could be was very, very high (much higher, imo, than the range for other classes that did hit a lower relative ceiling).

    I mean, by the time I got to raiding I thought I was doing something wrong, and others probably thought I was cheating, because I could almost always get near the top of dps charts (and I wasn't a slack-healer, neither!). There were several instances where I ended up as the only healer left alive (a few times on that one boss near the airship that had a frontal stun, which wasn't the hardest raid boss ever, but still not something I should have been able to practically solo heal with no raid gear!).

    Granted, I was a bit of an overachiever when it came to dissecting the class. At one point, on top of getting a nice tap, dd and dot rotation going so everything was always hitting... I macroed in weapon swaps with staffs to fire off clicky damage spells, as well as triggering on melee to get a few staff hits in every few spells. Yeah, I was that anal and inventive.. but able to max out the class while always being under-geared compared to others. I felt guilty taking gear on top of it all... :P

    Anyhow, enough poetical waxing... I loved the class, and think a lot of the power was balanced by the [many!] risks the blood mage had to take... and the power was often well deserved, as there was no worse a class in vanguard than a poorly played blood mage... still, I hope in Riftpot if they do have a life-tap healing sort of method, it's more well balanced.

    Also, that way over time everyone and their effing dog won't be like "oh, I have a BM alt too!" forcing m to respond "this isn't my alt, dork, and stop calling it BM it sounds like my grandmother talking about her bathroom behavior!" Err, I mean, "I'm going to make a light-armor wearing life-tap healing caster variant as well..." or whatever it'd be...

    And I hope they have unicorns and gnomes! Rawr.

    In conclusion, I'm glad to find fellow BMG lovers in this big wide world
    Now that's rare, someone who is into gnomes and BMG as much as I am Enjoyed reading your post but the part about beeing OP could have been left behind, we all know it's true

    Regards,
    Kalbuir

  7. #37
    Ascendant popsicledeath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalbuir View Post
    Now that's rare, someone who is into gnomes and BMG as much as I am Enjoyed reading your post but the part about beeing OP could have been left behind, we all know it's true

    Regards,
    Kalbuir

    Vanguard had the best gnomes EVAR. I loved the little "mmraah" sound they'd make. Surprised more people didn't succumb to the sexy and make their own gnomes. ;) And symbiotes was just like tinkering, but with body parts, so always felt right on a gnome.

  8. #38
    Shadowlander Eysara's Avatar
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    It has pretty much been said before but I really feel like this point needs to be stressed in the forums. Vanguard took the idea of the healer and understood why it needed to change. Through the Blood Mage and Disciple class it is most evident. Sitting in a party mashing out heals is boring for many people. I know I hated playing healer classes in any other games that I have tried. VG made it so that the healer NEEDED to be part of the battle to be completely effective. Listed above are tons of examples with the Blood Mage. The Clerics best buffs came from combat crit chains and purposely were given a strong HoT so that they could be a part of the combat instead of just spam healing. I know that changes a bit in raid situation but that is a whole different topic. I am posting all this because I think VG taught us an important lesson through these dynamic healing classes. That lesson being healers need to be more interactive than simply target allie, hit heal button, pick nose, rinse and repeat.

    Eysara Shadowreaper

  9. #39
    Rift Disciple Yila's Avatar
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    Vanguard Prior to going over to Sony had probably the best devs in the mmo market. The Blood Mage class was a number 1 for creativity and you are seeing this in other mmmos. (jedi consular) The Blood mage type class I feel will make an appearance just under a different name and I expect this to be very popular in the World of Telara. Also I don't know if many know this but there are a bunch of old Vanguard Devs working on this project so we have a very good chance in maybe seeing this become a reality

    Perhaps will see a Wizard have the option to swing this way in a soul tree. Probably not far off on this.

    Yila

  10. #40
    Rift Chaser Zephyroth's Avatar
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    maybe they had good dev for the class creation.. but they had the worst programmers ever!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  11. #41
    Rift Master charlionfire's Avatar
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    Great read. Nice guide from Kalbuir as I just recently started up in VG leveling a Blood Mage. So far, I love the class and I'm feeling totally OP, even though I'm starting to feel Goblins don't have the most min-maxed racial.... well maybe min:ed.

    If healers are as much fun in Rift, I do not look forward to even chosing my Archetype.

  12. #42
    Ascendant Kalbuir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by charlionfire View Post
    Great read. Nice guide from Kalbuir as I just recently started up in VG leveling a Blood Mage. So far, I love the class and I'm feeling totally OP, even though I'm starting to feel Goblins don't have the most min-maxed racial.... well maybe min:ed.

    If healers are as much fun in Rift, I do not look forward to even chosing my Archetype.
    If your interested I can send you some old (yet still relevant, since nothing changed since lvl 55) guides I made a while back when I still played.

    That aside, I think what made the shaman, discple and Blood Mage in Vanguard such great healers in general was not that they where OP (even if they where) but the mechanics they used and combination of mechanics which made it really interesting.

    The coding might have been sloppy, or the right resources might not have been availible but the idea's where spot on and could have been so much better if the opportunity had been there. I still really hope we will see unique mechanics involved with the RIFT healing. It doesn't need to be a BMG, DSC, Shaman but if they put the same amount of thought into the individual class / soul mechanics I have no doubts on my mind that we will be entertained for hours while healing.

    Regards,
    Kalbuir

  13. #43
    Champion
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    I love my bloodmage in Vanguard. She's a good healer that does well in groups but she can also solo quite decently. My two favourite classes are healer and necro, which come together well in the bloodmage. Using parts of slain bodies appeals to my necro side and applying them to buff and ward my group appeals to my healer side.

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