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Thread: The hardest game to gear up in I've ever played, not worth it.

  1. #1
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    Default The hardest game to gear up in I've ever played, not worth it.

    I've played the same toon since day 1 of Rift. Loved it back then. Now it has the most pointless endgame I've experienced. So many walls to gearing up that it is a miserable experience. Now I play about 3 hours a week. Pass the time while I cool off from my workout.

    I really have no idea what the developers are trying to accomplish here but drive off players and stock their online store.

  2. #2
    Xly
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    I'm not quite sure what you're talking about. From fresh 70 to Tier 2-ready takes about 2 weeks if you put the work in, maybe 4 weeks if you go at it more casually - and have someone take you into TDEz/IRotP/TDNM. It's a multiplayer game, so I guess group play is encouraged
    Last edited by Xly; 08-04-2018 at 09:29 AM.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xly View Post
    I'm not quite sure what you're talking about. From fresh 70 to Tier 2-ready takes about 2 weeks if you put the work in, maybe 4 weeks if you go at it more casually - and have someone take you into TDEz/IRotP/TDNM. It's a multiplayer game, so I guess group play is encouraged
    Unless you mean 4 weeks /played then no. Hit is no longer the only determining factor to raid. You do have an easier time getting in raids as a tank or archon though but besides playing seeked after roles you have to worry about fragments and CP is not something that is easy to cap like back in NT so essences matter too. You do have to consider upgrading your gear as well which cost an insane amount of plat. Albeit you can pay to progress faster on some parts at least. Most people who bring players to T2 ask for 1MILLION+ minimum dps. Our guild leader use to pug quite a few players with the HIT to enter T2 and they could not even sustain 700K dps because they did not have good fragments or essences or play any other roles. That guy was so stuck on only needing hit to enter that people abandoned the guild until he started asking for 1 million + dps or tanks. They even ditched several archons because they could not do mechanics like purges or cleanses.
    Last edited by Aedynn; 08-06-2018 at 03:16 PM.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aedynn View Post
    Unless you mean 4 weeks /played then no. Hit is no longer the only determining factor to raid. You do have an easier time getting in raids as a tank or archon though but besides playing seeked after roles you have to worry about fragments and CP is not something that is easy to cap like back in NT so essences matter too. You do have to consider upgrading your gear as well which cost an insane amount of plat. Albeit you can pay to progress faster on some parts at least. Most people who bring players to T2 ask for 1MILLION+ minimum dps. Our guild leader use to pug quite a few players with the HIT to enter T2 and they could not even sustain 700K dps because they did not have good fragments or essences or play any other roles. That guy was so stuck on only needing hit to enter that people abandoned the guild until he started asking for 1 million + dps or tanks. They even ditched several archons because they could not do mechanics like purges or cleanses.
    That is where games like WOW are much more pleasurable to play. You can easily get an upgrade once a week playing only a few hours a week. Do a Mythic keystone, and every week get a chest with what can usually be a great upgrade. The weekly dungeon also gives upgrades. It was very fun to play until this BFA came out. Screw that!

    I would sub to RIFT if they had a real loot system and not these insane currency requirements. It's just not fun!

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hotflashes View Post
    That is where games like WOW are much more pleasurable to play. You can easily get an upgrade once a week playing only a few hours a week. Do a Mythic keystone, and every week get a chest with what can usually be a great upgrade. The weekly dungeon also gives upgrades. It was very fun to play until this BFA came out. Screw that!

    I would sub to RIFT if they had a real loot system and not these insane currency requirements. It's just not fun!
    I've been playing WoW since Vanilla, and back then it was way more tedious to get decent loot compared to Rift. I agree with what you say, it has become way too easy to get purple loot, even though it won't compare to normal and mythic raid ones.
    Rift on the other hand gives you the pay to win option - want some kickass gear without much effort? You can (you pay a monthly subscription to be allowed to play WoW and get easy loot, so where's the problem?). Else you have the option to get your shinies just like we did in Vanilla WoW: LFG MC/Ony - bear in mind, though: you will enter with 40 people competing with at least 4 of your same class for that BiS trinket, once a week.
    Just to give you an idea: I was playing a prot warrior with the goal to be the guild's main tank. It took me about 40+ runs in UBRS to get the best blue tanking shield available, and since you could roll on ANY loot I've seen it snatched away from me by ret paladins and ele shamans.
    So yeah, the loot system in Rift is really bad *sarcasm off*
    Last edited by Icedmind; 08-07-2018 at 01:22 AM.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Icedmind View Post
    I've been playing WoW since Vanilla, and back then it was way more tedious to get decent loot compared to Rift. So yeah, the loot system in Rift is really bad *sarcasm off*
    You're comparing a modern MMO to the first successful themepark MMO that was still hammering out the details as to what the wider audience will willingly swallow. Rift took huge steps backward with the fragment system and the 5 flavor RNG raid drops where 3 of the options are objectively crappy and disappointing but have the exact same upgrade cost and significantly higher drop rate (with upgrade items dropping infrequently and non-raid mats being a snoozegrind). Add to that the complete lack of a sense of accomplishment when you get generic 'Pants of the Owl' instead of Umrathzi's Multi-faceted Cargo Shorts and it's a lot less charming a process than vanilla WoW.

    More important is the reason for that reverse evolution, which is money money money. Designing a gearing system around RNG that can be bypassed with cash for more IRCs/REX to sell to upgrade fragments is a slap in the face to people who paid $40-60 for the expansion, and it doesn't make for entertaining repeatable content.

    Outside of completely unashamedly P2W Eastern MMOs it's the worst gearing system I have personally witnessed. There's absolutely no sense from a player perspective in removing secondary stats from gear and putting them on fragments if the next step is inserting role specific RNG gear, and very few people like RNG generi-loot.
    Last edited by MarginalSteve; 08-07-2018 at 10:46 AM. Reason: Edited for clarification

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarginalSteve View Post
    You're comparing a modern MMO to the first successful themepark MMO that was still hammering out the details as to what the wider audience will willingly swallow. Rift took huge steps backward with the fragment system and the 5 flavor RNG raid drops where 3 of the options are objectively crappy and disappointing but have the exact same upgrade cost and significantly higher drop rate (with upgrade items dropping infrequently and non-raid mats being a snoozegrind). Add to that the complete lack of a sense of accomplishment when you get generic 'Pants of the Owl' instead of Umrathzi's Multi-faceted Cargo Shorts and it's a lot less charming a process than vanilla WoW.

    More important is the reason for that reverse evolution, which is money money money. Designing a gearing system around RNG that can be bypassed with cash for more IRCs/REX to sell to upgrade fragments is a slap in the face to people who paid $40-60 for the expansion, and it doesn't make for entertaining repeatable content.

    Outside of completely unashamedly P2W Eastern MMOs it's the worst gearing system I have personally witnessed. There's absolutely no sense in removing secondary stats from gear and putting them on fragments from a player perspective, and very few people like RNG generi-loot.
    Well Said Steve!

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarginalSteve View Post
    There's absolutely no sense in removing secondary stats from gear and putting them on fragments from a player perspective, and very few people like RNG generi-loot.
    From this player's perspective - yes, there is absolutely good reason to remove the secondary stats from gear. Fragments are not the best system for refining specs (tank vs heals vs dps vs PvP) - but a single system that is not tied to multiple sets of gear is a better solution. My opinion.

    The annoying 5 suffix issue may have been an attempt to appease the folks who still wanted tailored gear. Preserver is Endurance heavy which is very important for tanks. Overlord is Main Stat heavy which his important for DPS. Or it may have been an effort to give us something incremental instead of a on/off situation - you either get best item a small percentage of the time or you get nothing most of the time. That may have been more frustrating. I don't think it was "just for money". Again, just my opinion. (On a side note: they just recently balanced out the chances of all the suffices).

    And I like IRCs. I'm a patron so I get 10 each week on any and all characters I log into each week. I've never purchased additional IRCs. There is lots of chances to get stuff normally each week. And having the flexibility to use those IRCs as *I* want is good for me. This week I need Tenebrean Engines. Next week, I need to get a specific drop in TD:LFR. Or now I want more Ethereal Shards from Golems.

    The other thing I like is that best gear comes from multiple sources - some crafted, some raids, some purchased with world currencies. Keeps me and my friends involved in more than just one little aspect of a large complex game world.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by SonoMoenia View Post
    From this player's perspective - yes, there is absolutely good reason to remove the secondary stats from gear. Fragments are not the best system for refining specs (tank vs heals vs dps vs PvP) - but a single system that is not tied to multiple sets of gear is a better solution. My opinion.
    While the original stated intent was to remove the need for gear swapping stuff that takes up inventory space the RNG gear that clearly lends itself to having multiple sets for different roles completely invalidated that. This is compounded by locking those stats behind multi-layer RNG on fragments. Like so many things in this expansion the press releases do not match the reality. Take the RNG out of fragments and reduce the cost to upgrade and it's a workable (though certainly not perfect) system. I agree that reducing inventory clutter is a good thing and that there are much better ways to go about it.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarginalSteve View Post
    Take the RNG out of fragments and reduce the cost to upgrade and it's a workable (though certainly not perfect) system. I agree that reducing inventory clutter is a good thing and that there are much better ways to go about it.
    I agree about Frags here, Steve. And word on the boards is that they are looking at doing that. Also agree that it still might not be the best solution. RNG is necessary for non-linear games, I think. It's the balance of what things are random and how random or rare they are. That's a fine art. I hope Trion does find a better balance.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by SonoMoenia View Post
    I agree about Frags here, Steve. And word on the boards is that they are looking at doing that. Also agree that it still might not be the best solution. RNG is necessary for non-linear games, I think. It's the balance of what things are random and how random or rare they are. That's a fine art. I hope Trion does find a better balance.
    It would only make sense if the classes were really balanced 1 to 1 in every aspect of the game. If they keep it the way it is you will always have players investing more than those other classes and still getting out parsed or destroyed in pvp by players with bolstered fragments even though they invested a whole lot less in their class. It was better with the previous way by a huge margin. The devs did not have to add convolution and RNG to gear grind. More mistakes were being made as a result from an itemization level.

    The suffix gear doesn't make any sense as well. It did the opposite of what they promised with eliminating sets of gear and people still focus on upgrading store bought gear while waiting for that special overlord/preserver piece to drop. At the moment they could have added back an upgrade to the current store bought gear and people would have incentive to play rift but instead they quit.

    In more than one way they killed replayability in this expansion by locking players into a class and giving players a false sense of accomplishment because even though they invested much more time, and/cash in their class, the class balance was never right. They recently did a class balance change because people were using damage procs for procs on low level NMR. This allowed them to farm alot of planarite. However, the change stopped most players from doing that and it stopped a way for players to play that content. In return it was also a huge nerf to almost all dps classes. As a result of the change players struggled to do another content. Going in with 3 groups doing 3/3 BoS raid clears down to 1 or 2 and eventually just 1. Ultimately, all they accomplished was stopping players from doing content in two directions.

    Also, drop rates were one sided for gear and fragments for most of the expansion giving certain classes a lot more chances at best in slot fragments than others. They made it so that certain raids drop a certain type of fragment and those raids ended up not being played much. So right now you have players who are just grinding end game and getting one type of fragment. Hardly anyone does TDNM.

    They add much more things that hurt the player base. They could have stuck to events and non precarious items and still made a profit while retaining replayability. Maybe introduced fragments for events that are fully upgraded and best in slot. They could have added IRC for events and dungeons to encourage running dungeons and other content as well. They would have retained much more players and they would have stop players from fast tracking their progressions by many months and arguing a few months later they have nothing to do because of no content.
    Last edited by Flashmemory; 08-15-2018 at 08:53 PM.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarginalSteve View Post
    You're comparing a modern MMO to the first successful themepark MMO that was still hammering out the details as to what the wider audience will willingly swallow. Rift took huge steps backward with the fragment system and the 5 flavor RNG raid drops where 3 of the options are objectively crappy and disappointing but have the exact same upgrade cost and significantly higher drop rate (with upgrade items dropping infrequently and non-raid mats being a snoozegrind). Add to that the complete lack of a sense of accomplishment when you get generic 'Pants of the Owl' instead of Umrathzi's Multi-faceted Cargo Shorts and it's a lot less charming a process than vanilla WoW.

    More important is the reason for that reverse evolution, which is money money money. Designing a gearing system around RNG that can be bypassed with cash for more IRCs/REX to sell to upgrade fragments is a slap in the face to people who paid $40-60 for the expansion, and it doesn't make for entertaining repeatable content.

    Outside of completely unashamedly P2W Eastern MMOs it's the worst gearing system I have personally witnessed. There's absolutely no sense from a player perspective in removing secondary stats from gear and putting them on fragments if the next step is inserting role specific RNG gear, and very few people like RNG generi-loot.
    Be happy that your warrior loot doesn't have useless suffixes like intelligence or spirit on it. Yes, the 5 flavor items are weird to look at, but they still remain more valuable to your specific toon - it is up to you if you feel like wasting upgrade materials for them, unless you've got them in abundance in your bank/inventory.
    Every single MMO has some secondary means of income, even WoW. You don't need to limit yourself to the monthly subscription if you feel like ramming every penny down their throats.
    Every game will have some features not everybody will enjoy, and as we go deeper into the 21st century you will find more and more people who want their stuff handed to them - possibly in their sleep. WoW aknowledges this by making the task of gearing up your toon easier, but why? Because it's the only economic way to keep people away from cancelling their subscription. The first two expansions required you to have a solid team of people to tackle dungeons and raids, PuGs didn't really exist because you were bound to the people on that single server and soon enough you had your friends and solid guild to rely on. Now it's pretty much like Rift in that case - you do "hard" stuff with strangers and you still manage to succeed. But it doesn't change a single tiny bit that, if you want the GOOD stuff you still need to put your behind on it. Success should be earned, and yes I know that's a bold statement talking about a game that allows you to buy the loot and gear you want.
    I've also tried alot of asian MMO's and I totally agree with you on your opinion about them. And it isn't just asian ones which can be horrible to play. I don't know if you ever played an MMO called "Knights Online", but let's say that your journey from say level 20 to 21 required about one billion (yes, billion) experience and the average mob you could handle solo gave about 1,5k exp. Quests? Haha, good one... there were none. Teaming up with 20+ people to go for higher level mobs/possibly elites was mandatory else you could just stop playing and care about more joyful things in life. Gear had to be upgraded with resources gathered from grinding mobs on end with a high possibility of breaking it - still like the Rift upgrading system more to be honest...
    I like a little bit of challenge and I surely don't mind running a raid multiple times to get the best item available. Until then I will have the mats required to upgrade them, so I don't see all the fuss.
    Last edited by Icedmind; 08-07-2018 at 12:46 PM.

  13. #13
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    Default Gearing Up Efficiently

    Gearing up isn't necessarily about how much time you put in, it's more about what you spend that time doing. Also, although knowing what to do is important, knowing people who can efficiently help you do it is perhaps more critical. Progression in MMOs largely depends on finding a decent team. Suggestion #1...find a good solid guild. With a decent guild that's willing to help, you can pile on T1 raid gear limited only by lockouts. At the same time, you can be working toward your eternal. At 4 hours per week, you can clear IROTP and TDN every week and still have a couple hours left for expert dungeons or other aspects for your eternal. At the same time, a decent guild should be able to help you with specs and strategy as far as gearing out and getting ready. The real trick is knowing what you should be doing next and having people available to help you do it when you need them. If you manage to get advice from an experienced raider as to what to do next...take notes. Seriously...if they are taking the time to help you out you should be making the most of that. Also, being attentive there will likely make people more willing to help you.

    When you start trying to get into T2, things get a little trickier. With the recent dps nerfs, it's a lot harder for raids to carry minimally geared people through T2 content. In that case, knowing and being able to play the specs the raid needs; especially niche specs that aren't as gear-dependent and having a decent grasp of fundamental mechanics can get you into a raid you really aren't ready for....especially if the raid has some slack. Otoh, don't be offended if you get sat for some runs because things are just too tight. Being a good sport and having a pro-team attitude will benefit you far more in the long run than getting into any single raid.
    Last edited by Geph; 08-12-2018 at 03:39 AM.

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