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Thread: Rogue vs Cleric Healing?

  1. #1
    Rift Disciple
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    Default Rogue vs Cleric Healing?

    Which do you think is best? I've been told that Mage is the worst.
    People seem to believe that Rogue is best, which is strange since Clerics are the main healers in most games.

  2. #2
    Ascendant forbiddenlake's Avatar
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    Define "best"? All healers are capable of healing all content, Primalist excluded for now

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    Plane Touched
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrGantz View Post
    Which do you think is best? I've been told that Mage is the worst.
    People seem to believe that Rogue is best, which is strange since Clerics are the main healers in most games.
    I guess you're talking about AOE heals, because Frost Keeper is pretty much face-roll ST heals for this content. The current meta is Tactician is the top AOE spec, followed by Warden. Chloromancers can heal the content, although as always it's more challenging due to inherent design, and the current scaling issues.

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    Ascendant Artewig's Avatar
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    Best tank healers? Puri (Cleric) and Frostkeeper (Mage)

    Best raid healer? Warden (Cleric)

    Currently, any class can solo heal any of the level 70 content (except primalists).

    Rogues are not the best. Tactician and Bardphys are both strong, but matched with any challenging content, neither of them will have the tools to succeed. Tactician lacks cooldowns, a brez, and an aoe cleanse. Bardphys lacks cooldowns (besides virtuoso) and doesn't have strong raid healing when they can't hit an enemy.

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    Plane Touched
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrGantz View Post
    Which do you think is best? I've been told that Mage is the worst.
    People seem to believe that Rogue is best, which is strange since Clerics are the main healers in most games.
    Double Post
    Last edited by Gunian; 01-29-2017 at 09:34 AM.

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    Champion of Telara Zehne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrGantz View Post
    Which do you think is best?
    Maybe it's just because I'm a cleric.
    Maybe it's just because warden is wildly OP (in PVE).
    But i'd have to say Cleric.

    Obviously warden's going to get nerfed, it is inevitable but atm it's beyond everything else.

    If the heal numbers being pulled by most specs now are considered 'normal for this content/level'. Warden is currently capable of healing content 2 expansions and level increases from now.

    On the flip side warden is one of the more intricate to play/intensive specs to push to it's max. This basically means that the majority of players won't see the difference between warden and other specs.

    i.e. I see wardens doing 200k hps. Standing right beside them i'm often pushing 2mil+. If this were dps it'd be the equivalent of the majority of players doing 50k dps while one person does 500k+ (playing the same exact spec with nearly the same gear)

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    Plane Touched Shelenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zehne View Post
    Maybe it's just because I'm a cleric.
    Maybe it's just because warden is wildly OP (in PVE).
    But i'd have to say Cleric.

    Obviously warden's going to get nerfed, it is inevitable but atm it's beyond everything else.

    If the heal numbers being pulled by most specs now are considered 'normal for this content/level'. Warden is currently capable of healing content 2 expansions and level increases from now.

    On the flip side warden is one of the more intricate to play/intensive specs to push to it's max. This basically means that the majority of players won't see the difference between warden and other specs.

    i.e. I see wardens doing 200k hps. Standing right beside them i'm often pushing 2mil+. If this were dps it'd be the equivalent of the majority of players doing 50k dps while one person does 500k+ (playing the same exact spec with nearly the same gear)
    It's not exactly the same, DPS is DPS and while the mob/mobs stills alive they get hit so people have DPS; HPS instead is a very different thing, if 2 Wardens cast their CDs at the same time only one of them will get the HPS, while the other is wasting his CDs (Open World Bosses/Intrepids Adventures/whatever you need to heal 10+ people) because once a player is full HP the rest of the healing incoming will be Overhealing (latency matters), while DPS isn't affected by OverDPS...

    So HPS isn't the ideal way to say if a Healer is better than another, it's a source to learn and to see what could you need, etc. If your raid is dieying because of lack of heals then you should do something different or try another healers combo, etc; if your raid succeed then the healing was good enough.
    Legendary Arkkam, The Dragon Tamer.
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    Formerly known as Franark of Apotheosys, Typhiria

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    Champion of Telara Zehne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shelenia View Post
    stuff
    ^True

    But there is a stark difference between a warden who can full heal all raid members every 1.5 seconds ( or 2-3x more than their max hp) and another healer who does on avg 200k/10 raid members = 20k hps * 1.5 seconds/gcd = 35k healing every 1.5 second gcd per raid member (about 15-20% their hp).

    There is a difference between enough healing to keep a raid alive and enough healing to keep derps alive.

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    Plane Touched Shelenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zehne View Post
    ^True

    But there is a stark difference between a warden who can full heal all raid members every 1.5 seconds ( or 2-3x more than their max hp) and another healer who does on avg 200k/10 raid members = 20k hps * 1.5 seconds/gcd = 35k healing every 1.5 second gcd per raid member (about 15-20% their hp).

    There is a difference between enough healing to keep a raid alive and enough healing to keep derps alive.
    Well, if someone doesn't move out of red it's not Healer's fault and it doesn't matter what class/spec you are as a healer.

    Differences between healers, of course, but definitely you cannot say this one is better or worse only seeing the HPS and this is why i love the Rift's classes system, because you can do a lot of different combos in order to overcome a fight
    Legendary Arkkam, The Dragon Tamer.
    Cleric of Inner Circle, Gelidra.
    Formerly known as Franark of Apotheosys, Typhiria

  10. #10
    Champion of Telara Zehne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shelenia View Post
    Well, if someone doesn't move out of red it's not Healer's fault and it doesn't matter what class/spec you are as a healer.
    This is where we diverge. If the player dies and is standing in red the majority consensus is that the player who stood in red is at fault for their own death.

    However, i'm going to teleport you back in time to a counter example: Vanilla T1 raiding.

    Most specifically on alsbeth there was a mechanic where a person in the raid had to run or they would cause raid damage. When the content was current this raid damage and the health pools people had made it so that there was about a 0% possibility for healers to simply heal through a player derping.

    Once players hp pools increased though, and people were doing PDKP runs (which I did alot of them as one of the hosts/carry) the damage caused by this mechanic was significantly smaller (compared to hp pools) than it was initially. Also raid healing was higher, higher to the point that raid healers could actually easily heal through 'derp'.

    The key point of this is that at the time healing/damage was more towards the 'being able to keep up' end of the spectrum than the more recent 'Top off immediately' spectrum. And while it may just be rumor I heard that trion was going to attempt to move things back towards the 'being able to keep up' of the spectrum. (Think this was stated on a livestream where the HP inflation was mentioned as one part of this solution to shift damage/healing from high acute bursts to lower sustained outputs).

    Basically, if the rumor is true total HPS potential will play a bigger role in healing than it has in SL/NMT.

  11. #11
    Fia
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zehne View Post
    Maybe it's just because I'm a cleric.
    Maybe it's just because warden is wildly OP (in PVE).
    But i'd have to say Cleric.

    Obviously warden's going to get nerfed, it is inevitable but atm it's beyond everything else.

    If the heal numbers being pulled by most specs now are considered 'normal for this content/level'. Warden is currently capable of healing content 2 expansions and level increases from now.

    On the flip side warden is one of the more intricate to play/intensive specs to push to it's max. This basically means that the majority of players won't see the difference between warden and other specs.

    i.e. I see wardens doing 200k hps. Standing right beside them i'm often pushing 2mil+. If this were dps it'd be the equivalent of the majority of players doing 50k dps while one person does 500k+ (playing the same exact spec with nearly the same gear)
    What subsouls and legendaries are you using?
    Fiia@Typhiria | Asthea@Hailol
    Cleric-Heal/Tank/DD | Lvl70



  12. #12
    Champion of Telara Zehne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fia View Post
    What subsouls and legendaries are you using?
    Pretty much cookie cutter.

    7 sent/8 puri, BoL and Flame lance

    Though using Oracle is slightly higher healing output, I enjoy the AoE capability of flame lance.

  13. #13
    Rift Disciple
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    Thank you all for your replies.

    I've always liked healing, but I'm not fast enough to keep up with the most intense fights, especially at endgame.

    So far, I've enjoyed playing a support Bard.

    In some of the other forums, I found a build for Bard/Phys. I have a feeling that it might be best for me since it has a lot of AOE and I've done well with Bard so far (but so far I've only done low level instances)

  14. #14
    Plane Walker Zojah's Avatar
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    All depends what happens with the balancing really.

    Personally pre-SFP Warden was ridiculous, though not many could play it correctly (yes, correctly).

  15. #15
    Telaran WiseHermit's Avatar
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    Cleric healing all the way....

    I'm still using builds from last xpac without and issue, but it also helps if people stay out of stupid and your healer knows how to properly use the spec

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