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Thread: Suggestion about Soul/Class Balancing

  1. #1
    Telaran
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    80

    Lightbulb Suggestion about Soul/Class Balancing

    Hello everyone and in special hello Trion,

    I want to make a suggestion for the Class Balancing.
    It is since we can sped the points where we want a problem.
    Mostly, we are only playing 1-2 specs, because of two options:
    First: One spec is just too strong.
    Second: The others are too weak and changing something is really hard.

    So my question and suggestion is: why don´t go away from the System to mixing up souls and change it into only full skilled souls.

    PROS:
    - It would be much easier to balance everything
    - Because it will be easier to balancing, it will be possible to play every soul in dungeons

    CONS:
    - Mixed specs (for example Chlorobinger) will be gone (like Archon/harbinger already is).

    ABOUT THE FACT, THAT MANY PLAYERS WILL SAY, THAT THIS IS ONE OF THE KEY FEATURES OF RIFT AND THAT THIS IS A BAD SUGGESTION:
    I thought about it and it is right, that we will have lesser options for some mixing specs.
    But please think about it, what would happen to change it like this.
    If you are only allowed, to choose 61 (31 for Primalists) points for your main soul, this means for Trion, that it should be easier to balance everything as good as possible.
    I want to take an example for the current Primalist (without pure aoe souls):
    Currently, you have 3 dps possibilities (Dervish, Vulcanist, Maelstrom).
    Because of the Legendary system, it is even harder to scale and only the Dervish spec is viable.
    THAT MEANS, that only 1/3 (33%) can be used without being too far behind.

    Another Example for Mages (without pure aoe souls):
    You have 5 dps souls as possible choices (Elementalist, Necromancer, Pyromancer, Harbinger, Warlock).
    How much are you using or are able to use without beeing too far behind?
    It is only the Elementalist and when I am right informed also Warlock (don´t know the current status, because it got slightly nerfed or something... mage players could say more about it^^).
    That means you have 1 - 2 builds you can use, what means you are playing only 20 - 40% of the possible choices.

    Every Soul has it unique gameplay!
    So why don´t limit the soul system to only max souls (with 1 possible off soul (15 points / 8points for primalists)).
    Like I said, it woul be a way easier to balance it and as soon the balancing would be finished you will have more builds you could use than before.

    Just think about it.

    It wouldn´t mean, that one of the key features like the soul system is gone. It is only a possible solution to get the soul system work like it should be, which means that you can choose the soul (playstyle) you want and you are competitive to everything else.

    OFF SOUL:
    The offsoul you choose should only be a nice gimmick.
    For Primalists lets say you want a solo spec with decent cleave, good ST dps and it should be ranged?
    Choose as your main soul the Vulcanist and as your off soul the Preserver (to get a HoT, a despell and a simple healing channel).

    This is my suggestion to you, Trion, how you could get it balanced.
    Because with the legendary option with SFP you made it only harder for yourself to balance it.

    Now everyone, feel free to discuss it and let your opinion to something like that back in the comments.


    WITH BEST REGARDS
    Mallgar@typhiria & Malllgar@typhiria (2 Primalists)
    Guild: IMPERA - Deutsche Raidgilde
    Fragen zum Primalisten? Schreibt mich ingame an :-)

  2. #2
    Rift Disciple
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    133

    Default

    WoW did it and I left WoW.
    If Rift did it, it would be the final nail in the coffin for me.
    I build specs based upon playstyle, not min maxing.
    The class Dev said in the balancing livestream that he has asked for this and they told him no.

    I have liked the freedom of choice the soul system has given me (even with the dev(s) trying to kill all the fun of hybrids).
    Co-GM of Haganai <Faeblight>
    GM of Filthy Casual <Gelidra>

  3. #3
    Telaran
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
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    Default

    I personally dont like hybrid builds.
    I personal think, if i want to be a warlock, play warlock.
    If i want to do direct hardhitters, play pyromancer. If i want to go melee, play harbinger.
    Because of so many souls are the hybrids in my oppinion too hard to care about it (it will never be balanced in an acceptable percentage)

    But the main problem is the balance.
    It is for PvP and PvE.
    I think that Blizzard went the right way.
    You shouldn't forget, how much more possible ways (more money for more people) Blizzard has and even they can't handle it.

    Like I said, the choices of at least 1 off soul (or two) should be stay.
    This is more than WoW and still enough in my oppinion
    We could have so many more buiöds to play after that rework (but i think it won't change and the balancing won't get better anymore with all the legendary skills...)
    Last edited by Mallgar; 01-23-2017 at 08:29 AM.
    Mallgar@typhiria & Malllgar@typhiria (2 Primalists)
    Guild: IMPERA - Deutsche Raidgilde
    Fragen zum Primalisten? Schreibt mich ingame an :-)

  4. #4
    Rift Master
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    VA
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    631

    Default

    Balancing is just about doing the math properly. You don't need to hard lock builds to do it and hard locking builds doesn't ensure doing it (see WoW's ridiculous numbers for the release of the current expansion). If you do the math right, things will come out pretty well balanced.

  5. #5
    BMX
    BMX is online now
    Shadowlander
    Join Date
    May 2011
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    36

    Default

    Pfft! And give up the freedom of being able to tweak a toon the way you want it? What is that going to achieve?

    With the current active player crisis, and you would like to chase more players out of game, are you bloody nuts??

    You have choices. If you want a 61 soul X, then build it and enjoy.

    There are many choices for peeps to make and that is what the game is founded on. So, yeah, feel free to take away freedom of choice in a toon and many will walk away.

    Not what I would like to see happen...

  6. #6
    Ascendant
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
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    1,661

    Default

    The problem with this is pretty much voiding the entire ascended soul design.

    Oh and WoW did it a long time ago and I hated it (and they only has 3 ****ing trees), but that's just me.
    I am sure there are plenty of people that doesn't mind turning Rift into a full on WoW clone as well. So I digress.
    Last edited by FateStayNight; 04-21-2017 at 02:48 PM.

  7. #7
    Plane Touched
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
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    215

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mallgar View Post
    snip....
    Its not hard to balance classes believe it or not. Even in Rift. That is not the goal of the class devs.. More like creating work loads to fix. That is why we only came close to balancing classes once in the last 3-4 years and even then procs were introduced that ruined balance so its not only class specific changes that ruin balance. Even if devs will make 61 or burst like WoW they will find ways to create priority in classes. Even if its a 1 to 1 designed souls some outside interaction will be developed to ruin the balance. So yeah.. there is no point in this.. If they were to consider doing this it would only be because it would create more of a work load that nets absolutely zilch net gains toward balance.

    Something is always tossed to a more favorable class in the end. What determines which class is the most favorable takes a lot of personal dissecting of rift streams and analyzing behaviors of the class devs when speaking about a class. You can tell, cleric was going to come out terrible in 4.1 about 3 months before the patch for instance if you actually saw the behavior and constantly side lining when cleric topics came up and you can tell by some changes they rather remove a playstyle than actually revamp it.. hence the near complete removal of synergy to legendary abilities by completely making the legendary useless in cleric. This is considered bandaiding but not actually fixing the problem.
    Last edited by Aedynn; 05-01-2017 at 02:54 AM.

  8. #8
    Telaran Mortavius's Avatar
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    Jan 2011
    Location
    Las Vegas
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    Default Why did this get stickied

    WHY did this get stickied!?!?!?

    Do you even know the whole point of Rift's Brand?!?

    Do you even Rift, Yo?

    The whole selling point of Rift, and the thing that made it stand out from all other MMO's was ITS SOUL SYSTEM!!!!

    The fact that you could make any style of character you wanted. Are some people gonna be better at using that? Yes. If you put a five year old chess player against a Gary Kasparov, that five year-old is gonna get his *** kicked. If you put a Forrest Gump against an Einstein, guess who's gonna get their *** kicked?

    You can't balance around player skill.

    Some players are naturally gonna rise to the top, and some players are naturally going to suck beyond all comprehension. Games DIE when you invoke digital Stalinism, cut down the tallest blades of grass to make everyone equal, and call it a day.

    All of you asking for this seem to be "Johnny come lately's" that weren't here in the beginning, and don't understand why the MAJORITY of us chose Rift in the first place!!!!

    Here's a reminder:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtL8_TkpGtE

    Do that, and we're gone.

    That will be Rift's NGE, and it will have the same effect on Rift that it did on SWG.....

    http://massivelyop.com/2015/08/22/th...-galaxies-nge/

    Do it, and many of us will give you the finger and leave for good...... think we won't?

    When the NGE launched, SWG lost EIGHTY PERCENT of their player-base.


    Do it!!!
    I DARE YOU!!!!!

    DOOOOOO IT!!!!!!!!!!

    Do it, because I promise you the day you lose that many customers, ALL OF YOU RESPONSIBLE FOR IT WILL LOSE YOUR JOBS!!!!
    Last edited by Mortavius; 05-05-2017 at 02:36 AM.

    AE's are interested in the PvE aspect of a game more than anything else. The AE thrives as a solo adventurer, counting coup with each new destination and discovery, poking into every corner of a map and toying with each nuance of a game mechanic.

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