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Thread: Proper Parsing Guidlines [Non-PTS]

  1. #1
    Rift Master Dizbo's Avatar
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    Default Proper Parsing Guidlines [Non-PTS]

    For Non-PTS Parsing:

    1. 5 min parse
    2. No consumables: food, potions, crit pots, powerstones, etc.
    3. No raid buffs
    4. Dummy: Level 70 vs. 67
    a) Physical Damage:
    b) Magical Damage:


    Comments/additions please.
    Last edited by Dizbo; 12-18-2016 at 01:49 PM. Reason: Been ill, hoping to get a basic outline-could not locate anything via search

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    Plane Touched Shelenia's Avatar
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    When next patch will hit Live none of these parses will be useful at all too many nerf for most of the classes, then we need to figured out new specs/combos again
    Last edited by Shelenia; 12-18-2016 at 01:55 PM.
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  3. #3
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    5 minute parses make it harder on casters since they'll run out of mana before then with some specs. I think the currently accepted standard is 3 minutes.

    Comparing parses on Live are super difficult as well since there's such a huge variance with what planar fragments people have. The community now needs a tool to accurately compare parses, taking into account differences in frags. It used to be just "I have close to expert gear" or "close to T1 gear"... but now that's somewhat inadequate. Screenshots of stats must be taken with every parse.
    Last edited by Archyface; 12-18-2016 at 02:14 PM.
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    RIFT Guide Writer SecondBass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archyface View Post
    5 minute parses make it harder on casters since they'll run out of mana before then with some specs. I think the currently accepted standard is 3 minutes.

    Comparing parses on Live are super difficult as well since there's such a huge variance with what planar fragments people have. The community now needs a tool to accurately compare parses, taking into account differences in frags. It used to be just "I have close to expert gear" or "close to T1 gear"... but now that's somewhat inadequate. Screenshots of stats must be taken with every parse.
    (In a perfect world, you get your bard friend to AFK next to you while you parse)

    Parse become more indicative the longer they go on for, just because it balances out RNG more. Even though damage variance was reduced, a 3min parse is just more likely to get screwed up by wonky RNG than a 5min.

    That said, a stand-alone parse is almost completely meaningless, even with a gear snapshot. Parsing is most effective when it is comparative.

    If the same person parses two specs under the same circumstances, it doesn't matter too much what the cicumstances actually are, it's going to be a better indicator than parsing either spec by itself under 'more ideal' circumstances.

    That said, my usual parse circumstances are:
    - No weapon stones, consumables, etc. (think that's fairly universal)
    - Fluid Movements (Martial master race cost reduction)
    - Dummy in dimension
    - Cut the parse as soon as the major CD becomes available after the 5min mark

    Or sometimes PTS parses:
    - No weapon stones, consumables, etc. (think that's fairly universal)
    - Expert Dummy Foundry 100% dummy
    - 5 minutes exactly

    But again, it's more important that an individual is consistent across all their parses than for the community to follow the same guidelines.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SecondBass View Post
    Parse become more indicative the longer they go on for, just because it balances out RNG more. Even though damage variance was reduced, a 3min parse is just more likely to get screwed up by wonky RNG than a 5min.

    Have noticed they changed the usual 5% variance on builders mainly to 1%. But at the same time, they also added the 1% variance to pretty miuch all the skills, even those that didn't have it at all (finishers, dots, channels, cast times). So it depends a bit on spec from what its damage mainly cames from, so the variance on parse could have easily been increased compared to before.

    I agree though that at least 5 min would be good for a parse, but don't think every spec can do that without boost to energy/power/mana, so it's a bit tricky. And for parsing more specs, sure it can help out more, but it hugely also depends on how good the player is with all the specs. In the end if you compare same spec parses, from different people and see their stats you can still take quite a lot of information out of that (as long as the parse is "long" enough), so it's not useless.

    Lastly, i would highly recommend the lvl 67 dummies in your dimension for now. Even if we get lvl 70+ ones, unless they finally come clear about what is inteded dmg reductions and armor/resists for this expansion, which they have been avoiding to answer since the start of it.
    Last edited by Jotunn; 12-19-2016 at 03:05 AM.

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    Plane Walker Sahtiaro's Avatar
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    I'd just like to point out that PTS parses are not that relevant for some specs if you are from EU because of the high latency and I remember I couldn't do the old paragon properly on the PTS. Using 5 oGCD abilities at the same time took way longer on PTS than on live.
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  7. #7
    Telaran
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    3 min parses are the differences between high and low really big.
    At 5 min you still have the differences, but not as much as on 3min parses.

    As additional point i would say to add a screen of your stats together with this spec.
    I think this would also be help.

    Also the tolerance of stopping a parse would be fine with +/-3 seconds.
    When i see parses with for example 3min17s I can only laugh about it
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    Plane Walker Zojah's Avatar
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    5. You can only mash your 1-button macro 5 times per GCD.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Sahtiaro View Post
    I'd just like to point out that PTS parses are not that relevant for some specs if you are from EU because of the high latency and I remember I couldn't do the old paragon properly on the PTS. Using 5 oGCD abilities at the same time took way longer on PTS than on live.
    Oh come on, Oceanics face this no matter which server lol! I shall not have my parses invalidated!
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  10. #10
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    3 minutes. 5 minutes. 10 or 30. It doesn't matter.
    What i've seen on my journey, parses are extremely broken ways of showing off your capabilities.
    People can parse 450k on dummy but when they get into raids and dungeons, they are garbage.
    You do mistakes in raids, you have to move, interrupt, purge, switch targets, stop DPSing.
    In current situtation, i haven't notice this, but a while back when we saw pyro dealing like 105k DPS on dummy, could barelly scratch 80k mark in dungeons and raids.

    You want to parse realistic DPS?
    Go to The Queen's Foci, with raid buffs, with stones and feast. Parse it there with interrupts and movements. There, you have realistic DPS.

    Only thing those dummies are good for is testing out your macros, new builds, can you handle the rotation, etc, etc.
    For DPS showoff? Go raid, ffs!

  11. #11
    RIFT Guide Writer Deeew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VPMH View Post
    3 minutes. 5 minutes. 10 or 30. It doesn't matter.
    What i've seen on my journey, parses are extremely broken ways of showing off your capabilities.
    People can parse 450k on dummy but when they get into raids and dungeons, they are garbage.
    You do mistakes in raids, you have to move, interrupt, purge, switch targets, stop DPSing.
    In current situtation, i haven't notice this, but a while back when we saw pyro dealing like 105k DPS on dummy, could barelly scratch 80k mark in dungeons and raids.

    You want to parse realistic DPS?
    Go to The Queen's Foci, with raid buffs, with stones and feast. Parse it there with interrupts and movements. There, you have realistic DPS.

    Only thing those dummies are good for is testing out your macros, new builds, can you handle the rotation, etc, etc.
    For DPS showoff? Go raid, ffs!
    You're confusing an individuals ability to perform in a raid environment, with the potential max dps that a spec can produce, partner.

    Dummy parses expose a specs max potential, while a raid parse exposes a players ability to perform to that max potential while still executing mechanics and staying alive.

    For PTS balance parses we look at max potential, hence these PTS parsing guidelines. These are designed so that the process is streamlined and so that the parsing environment is identical for everyone.
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    Ascendant Artewig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VPMH View Post
    3 minutes. 5 minutes. 10 or 30. It doesn't matter.
    What i've seen on my journey, parses are extremely broken ways of showing off your capabilities.
    People can parse 450k on dummy but when they get into raids and dungeons, they are garbage.
    You do mistakes in raids, you have to move, interrupt, purge, switch targets, stop DPSing.
    In current situtation, i haven't notice this, but a while back when we saw pyro dealing like 105k DPS on dummy, could barelly scratch 80k mark in dungeons and raids.

    You want to parse realistic DPS?
    Go to The Queen's Foci, with raid buffs, with stones and feast. Parse it there with interrupts and movements. There, you have realistic DPS.

    Only thing those dummies are good for is testing out your macros, new builds, can you handle the rotation, etc, etc.
    For DPS showoff? Go raid, ffs!
    Uh... If you are parsing lower during a raid than on a dummy, you are either doing something horribly wrong or there is an extended downtime. Even rotation mistakes and target swaps shouldn't outweigh the benefit of consumables, raid buffs/debuffs.

    Raids are generally a pretty poor way to compare specs. First of all, different specs scale differently. Second, the variation in parses is enormous because of properly and improperly played support. During NT, I dpsed Pagura with several groups ranging in skill. Some groups I was bursting 200k, others, only 150k. It wasn't that I was doing anything different. There are too many variables to get an accurate measurement. Raid parses are not realistic parses, especially when it comes to spec balance.

    Without context, a mage doing 105k on a dummy and 80k in a raid is either a bad mage, in a bad group, in a fight with extended downtime, or a combination. A mage doing 105k on a dummy and 80k in a raid shows that the spec has the potential to at least hit 105k. If you were to use the 80k raid parse, the spec would be underestimated and buffed when in reality, it might actually need to be nerfed.

    Consistency is incredibly important with balance and raids are as inconsistent as you can get.
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