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Thread: Mage and Warrior DPS is rather limited.

  1. #1
    Champion of Telara McChaffe's Avatar
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    Default Mage and Warrior DPS is rather limited.

    Can we get a little more variety please. Reaver is dominating all choices when it comes to Warrior DPS and Mage is currently limited into 54 Harbinger or Pyro now that SC hybrids are pretty much dead.

    I get that the Devs are busy working on Primalist, but a lot of existing class specs need faster than they are currently getting them. In most cases, the problem right now is that several existing specs currently work, but are unable to pull raid DPS in various forms.

    In the case of Mage specs, Warlock, Elementalist, Necro and 61 Harbinger are all being out performed by the current 54 Harbinger and Pyro. Instead of reworking these builds and their playstyle entirely, can we just get some simple damage buffs to make these specs useful? That's apparently already the plan with Warlock, but it needs to happen to more specs than just Warlock.

    In the case of Warrior, Reaver hilariously outperforms everything. This thread isn't calling for a nerf to Reaver, but a request to make other Warrior specs able to compete in terms of ST DPS effectively. It's nice that warriors have ranged, but I'd rather play Para or WL if those actually could perform well in raids compared to Reaver.

    All I'm asking here is for a few damage buffs to be rolled out to some existing souls to get them on the raiding scene. And sooner, rather than later because class updates have been really, really overdue for several souls.
    Last edited by McChaffe; 08-04-2015 at 07:41 AM.
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    Agree for the Warrior, but mage variety imho is fine. One ranged spec and one melee spec is ok, just look at the cleric. Nothing to play there except 61 Inq and 61 Shaman when it comes to DPS. Rogue has a bit more variety (61NB, 61 Sin, Sin/NB, MM if you really don't want), but from all I can tell, the specs are all very similar to each other, while for example harb and pyro feel completely different from each other.
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    Sword of Telara Nithydux's Avatar
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    I just want a viable 61 point spec for my mage... alas we can't be dps without some ridiculous hybrid.
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    Plane Walker InflatablePanda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nithydux View Post
    I just want a viable 61 point spec for my mage... alas we can't be dps without some ridiculous hybrid.
    61Stormcaller, 61Pyro and 61Harb are very viable o.o
    Last edited by InflatablePanda; 08-05-2015 at 05:27 PM.

  5. #5
    Sword of Telara Nithydux's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InflatablePanda View Post
    61Stormcaller, 61Pyro and 61Harb are very viable o.o
    Pyro is reliant on crit RNG, so it's unreliable. And I didn't play mage to be melee.

    Honestly, this game is so backwards. Best DPS soul for warriors is ranged, best DPS soul for mages is melee.
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  6. #6
    Ascendant Sedvick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nithydux View Post
    XXX is reliant on crit RNG
    Welcome to dps.

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    RIFT Guide Writer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sedvick View Post
    Welcome to dps.
    Except unlike every other class, it has no active crit rate boost and is pigeonholed into the crit rate reduction mastery.
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    Ascendant Gilgad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by evantide View Post
    Except unlike every other class, it has no active crit rate boost and is pigeonholed into the crit rate reduction mastery.
    Non-mages just don't understand :P

  9. #9
    Plane Walker InflatablePanda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nithydux View Post
    Pyro is reliant on crit RNG, so it's unreliable.
    Pyro does like crit, and does have a little harder time than other specs. But being real, it's not make or break, on fights i use pyro i do not fluctuate at all. I will generally be the same dps since the fights are long enough ti equalizes out in t2 content. So saying something isn't reliable is kind of a cop-out i feel, that's at least my opinion.

    Although i can understand people requesting more versatility in specs, (this is rift. It was MADE for versatility in the soul system) i wouldn't paint it so specific as X class has nothing compared to Y class.

    Rogue - 61assasin, 61Nightblade, 61Marksman
    Mage - 61Harb, 61Pyro (plans to add 61warlock)
    Warrior - 61Paragon, 61 Reaver (Plans to add 61 Riftblade)
    Cleric - 61Shaman, 61Inquisitor (Plans to be RiP)

    On a pure 61 point soul point of view, life isn't that bad comparing one class to another, i would agree that all classes need to be looked at. But common, that's a ridiculous amount of work to keep balancing if i'm going to be honest, i don't mind the flavor swapping, assuming flavors changing.

    Hybrids are also not something to completely complain about, hybrids are apart of rift and should definitely stay. Playing 61 point specs all the time, although preference, ruins the flavor of rift itself. You cant overdo the 61 point souls, not all souls should be viable at 61 points from a dps perspective at the same time.

    I'd be more concerned that Cleric is about to bite some dust in the DPS variety stand point (Too many healing/support souls).
    Last edited by InflatablePanda; 08-05-2015 at 07:07 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by evantide View Post
    Except unlike every other class, it has no active crit rate boost and is pigeonholed into the crit rate reduction mastery.
    Nbsin has no forced crit, nb has no forced crit, reaver has no forced crit, paragon has no forced crit... but yea Mage is so broken rightnow it's unplayable and is the only soul that has no forced crit, unlike every other class with forced crit in every soul.

    Chance to crit should be increased by 75% all pyro spells during heatwave... just to keep up with all other classes.

    Or introduce a brand new low hanging talent in pyro tree that increase chance to crit for your next damaging or healing abilities by 10%/20%/30% per stack for every spell that did not crit, stack up to 3 times. Call it Bursting Fury (BF) or something original you know.

  11. #11
    Soulwalker
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    Double thumbs up for this post! I agree that warriors are limited to playing other builds that everyone might as well call their class "reaver" instead of warrior. As risky as it is to say, reavers deserve a nerf. I'm not here to QQ about reavers but to point out the fact that its unfair that all the other classes have to put more effort into learning and performing their rotations. Everyone can argue that it has a lot of buttons but a lot of people can still play it to its max potential without macros. Try playing 54 harb without macros, then only a few people would be able to play it to its max. As for mages, I agree that we should have more options playing 61 specs to make the game more fun -- after all, most people play RIFT to have fun and not to produce high numbers. Having said that, I think 61 archon should be buffed with the others :P
    Last edited by Nirti; 08-06-2015 at 11:11 PM.

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    RIFT Guide Writer fufi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nithydux View Post
    Pyro is reliant on crit RNG, so it's unreliable. And I didn't play mage to be melee.

    Honestly, this game is so backwards. Best DPS soul for warriors is ranged, best DPS soul for mages is melee.
    That only means that you won't hate SC as much as clerics do, and that you'll gain more dps from raid buffs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athanil View Post
    mage variety imho is fine. One ranged spec and one melee spec is ok,
    For a game that prides itself in having a big soul system allowing people to play a million different ways...
    I don't see how it is ok that mages have TWO viable specs.

    It's horrible.
    At the very least, they should have 10 viable specs ( one per soul ).
    That's not even counting the hybrids.

    This is the main or one of the main thing they should work on. Make ALL souls useful.
    Rift soul trees have so much potential, yet it's unexploited because there's always 1 or 2 specs so much stronger than everything else, than it's like there's just 1 or 2 options, the rests aren't really options they're just bad choices. I mean you could also play without your staff, that's an option for you as well, but it's a ****ty one. Same goes for most souls.

    It's ridiculous and it's been going on forever.
    Played other MMO ( not the big one, altough I think it's the same? ) where there was no hybrid/soul choices like that, just 3 trees by classes and you pick one and only one...

    Well, I feel it was more diverse. Because all 3 were good. You couldn't "get a better tree" you could just "get a different tree that makes your gameplay experience/style different".

    It's silly that a game with just 3 trees felt more diverse than a game with 10 souls which you can arrange however you like, giving you a 120 different ways to pick your souls, PLUS many ways to arrange your soulpoints...
    Yet everyone plays the few same specs, or very close...

  14. #14
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    **** hit the fan when Trion decided to make all-in-one souls to have competitive dps... and judging by reaver apparently Trion still think it's a good idea.

    Reaver/NB/SCharb all shouldn't have such impressive single target dps not when they all cleave so ******* well at the same time... While NB and SCHarb is limited in some ways like NB can't cleave at all from range while SCHarb is "melee spam"... Reaver is just a full on train wreck of a soul... and the diversity WAS suppose to be what Rift's soul system was all about.

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    Ascendant Shinkirou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FateStayNight View Post
    Nbsin has no forced crit, nb has no forced crit, reaver has no forced crit, paragon has no forced crit... but yea Mage is so broken rightnow it's unplayable and is the only soul that has no forced crit, unlike every other class with forced crit in every soul.
    *Sigh*

    Does NB/Sin or NB have nothing to use except a hard casted 1.5 second ability on their 1 second cooldown outside of Ebon Fury? And zero dots or any kind of passive damage?

    Does Ravaging Strike and Dire Blow have a 2 second cast time, and no dots or passive damage in the Reaver soul?

    Does Paragon have to hard cast 1.5 second abilities on it's 1 second GCD, with zero dots or passive damage?

    The problem isn't "Pyro doesn't have a force crit ability" the problem is outside of it's CD block, Pyro mostly does 1 tick of damage every 1.5 seconds, yes we have a few other abilities we can use, but 2 of them rely on rng procs, and the others have a cooldown.

    Because Pyro hits so god damn slow, has no passive damage, no dots, and has to be standing still for the ability that accounts for 30%+ of it's overall dps, bad crit RNG can drop it's dps by 10-20k, frequent movement can drop it's dps by up to 50% making it not even viable on certain fights. Basically ALL none mage specs only have to worry about losing a couple thousand dps due to mechanics or bad crit rng, and then there's pyro, witch can easily be worthless if mechanics don't overly favor it's horrible horrible playstyle.

    Crit RNG is the difference between me parsing 68k and 58k self buffed in my dimension, find me another spec that can vary by 10k on parses based on nothing but crit RNG.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ocho
    Also nerf bards.

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