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Thread: Expected DPS/HPS/EH For NTE's?

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    Rift Disciple mrnails's Avatar
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    Default Expected DPS/HPS/EH For NTE's?

    When entering NTE's what's the entry lvl damage per second for dps, heals per second for healer and effective health pools for the tank?

    And

    What's the same for the above for midrange?

    I'm a healer and I mostly see tanks with about 120-150k EH

    DPS usually around 15k-60k (AoE is higher of course)

    and my HPS have been (pending) 500k to max i've noticed 1.92m. (Purifier)
    LvL 65 1k hit / LvL 63 Prestige

  2. #2
    Phs
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    People were doing more than 20k at level 60. You should be expected to do more dps than that..

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    Champion of Telara
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    This won't end well.

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    Plane Walker CKat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phs View Post
    People were doing more than 20k at level 60. You should be expected to do more dps than that..
    "People" with what kind of gear, experience/knowledge about the builds rotations and instances and what kind of PCs and connections?

    I have seen players with 1k hit doing 10-15k. Not every fresh 65 has been playing the game for years nor reads forums and dps guides and some of them hardly ever grouped.
    I have been playing Rift 5 months or so but only lately I let myself be persuaded to run NTEs and most of them I am not very familiar with mechanics wise. While I do have a good teacher I still notice my dps drops when I encounter something I am not completely confident what to do about. I can do 35k+ in a bit better than entry gear when my FPS hovers around 20 and more but last few days it can drop to 3 for no visible reason and my dps drops accordingly.

    So generalizing about "people" who did 20k+ at lvl 60 really doesnt help someone new to the game. In most (semi) PuGs I ran so far 20k seems to be perfectly acceptable.

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    Telaran
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    If you rephrase to, what DPS/HPD/EH is required to casually finish NTE instances, that might make more sense.

    For eg, I see party dps at 60k I'm pretty happy that we can finish easily. 50k.. becomes harder.. 40k I might just give up (depends on the dungeon really).

    Tank and heals go together.. A good healer can cover a bad tank and vice versa. HPS is less of a factor than how quick you can burst heal vs burst dmg or preventative healing (puri shields OP!)

    What people _EXPECT_ however is usually more, especially if they have everything on farm status and the only reason they run NTE is cos trion is dangling madness stone carrots over them.

  6. #6
    Champion of Telara
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    Enrage timer on bosses is too lax, so strictly speaking even a group dps of just 20k total is technically enough. At the same time, the required Effective HP for tanks is that which can leave the tank with 1 hp after the hardest hitting attack and effective required hps for healers is that which will bring the group back to 100% before the next damage income.

    In reality it's an issue of what is acceptable by the community. And the community itself doesn't agree on those. Generally speaking, if you can maintain 25-30k dps on the dummies without the use of external buffs and burst cooldowns, you will be beyond fine. Similarily, try to have 110k+ HP without external help as tank and as a healer just try to be able to heal everyone without having to resort to oh-**** abilities every time they come off cd.

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    Ascendant radiomaryja's Avatar
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    As long as you don't die to stupid it's ok - dps will PROBABLY be sufficient, unless its Empyrean Core - it's the only dungeon that I would expect (as a tank) to have dpsers that can actually dps (also use aoe specs instead of rangers -.- )
    Last edited by radiomaryja; 05-04-2015 at 05:26 AM.

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    Plane Touched
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    What I expect/hope for:

    DPS 30k single target (should be doable with min gear req for experts). An aoe spec for trash.

    Tank 120k-HP and and understanding of what a CD is.

    Healers probably need to sustain 15k hps or so to get through just about everything, with some more burst when needed.

    Experts are easily doable with less...but that's what I'd expect people to be able to do. Usually 1-2 people in an expert are below my expectation when I random queue.

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    Ascendant Boase's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrnails View Post

    and my HPS have been (pending) 500k to max i've noticed 1.92m. (Purifier)
    2 mill heals per second. nice.




    There is no baseline for HPS. If your tank dies to lack of heals then you need more. We can't say you need X amount of heals because its different in every fight.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CKat View Post
    "People" with what kind of gear, experience/knowledge about the builds rotations and instances and what kind of PCs and connections?

    I have seen players with 1k hit doing 10-15k. Not every fresh 65 has been playing the game for years nor reads forums and dps guides and some of them hardly ever grouped.
    I have been playing Rift 5 months or so but only lately I let myself be persuaded to run NTEs and most of them I am not very familiar with mechanics wise. While I do have a good teacher I still notice my dps drops when I encounter something I am not completely confident what to do about. I can do 35k+ in a bit better than entry gear when my FPS hovers around 20 and more but last few days it can drop to 3 for no visible reason and my dps drops accordingly.

    So generalizing about "people" who did 20k+ at lvl 60 really doesnt help someone new to the game. In most (semi) PuGs I ran so far 20k seems to be perfectly acceptable.
    20k on Dummies was T2 DPS after the world first guilds kill Planebreaker in SL. By the time T3 rolled around, most people could safely pug a good chunk of T2 and get equivalent gear for those results. We're talking third string (T1 progressers when T2 just finished) sort of players being able to manage that.

    A fully reliced T1 player performing at max could accomplish it. A T2 full purples being half-assed could pull it off. A T3 fully assing it player could do 20k.
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    I can pull ~35k on my alt mage with Pyro, in crafted/chronicle gear, all while not really knowing what I'm doing. I've got maybe 15 hours played on him since he got to 65, so I have a long way to go towards learning the rotations and getting some gear. I'd have no problem with a like-geared player doing 35k in an NTE. There's obviously a learning curve for dungeons and specs at 65.

    If a player is doing <30k at 65, there's something fundamentally wrong with 1) their spec, 2) their rotation, 3) their gear (still wearing level 60 greens, no seal, no trinket,etc), or 4) all of the above. In my experience, low dps has more to do with the first two than the last. I've seen guys in fresh crafted gear out-dps people in T1 gear, because they know what they're doing.

    I'd like to think that most players would enjoy performing better, having a more effective spec, and the ability to excel at content. My real problem is people that won't take advice, that tell me to **** or just ignore me when I nicely try to suggest things. When I'm doing 80-90% of the dps in a 5 man, that's just ridiculous. Honestly, I want people to get upgrades. I want them to play better. It makes the game more enjoyable for everyone. I don't need anything from dungeons, I'm just there for the charges, so I'm happy when people get upgrades. What I don't want is to have to carry a group because people won't take advice or bother to do a little research before subjecting four other people to their inability and ignorance. The fact that the OP is on the forums and asking questions is a good sign.
    Last edited by Koraii; 05-04-2015 at 10:19 AM.

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    Rift Disciple mrnails's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lappdancer View Post
    What I expect/hope for:

    Healers probably need to sustain 15k hps or so to get through just about everything, with some more burst when needed.
    That can't be right. 15k and everybody dies. Like my quote below I've sustained over 1 million hps (for group) and I still have had hard times. Yes, I'm a fresh 65 and still have 3 more pieces of gear to upgrade (from lvl 60 gear), but 15k would get me perbanned from NTE's.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boase View Post
    2 mill heals per second. nice.
    Yeah, that was my hps for group and still had a hard time keeping ppl alive. They probably standing in red for all I know.. I was just trying to keep myself AND them alive. : /


    Quote Originally Posted by Boase
    There is no baseline for HPS. If your tank dies to lack of heals then you need more. We can't say you need X amount of heals because its different in every fight.
    Ok. I figured as much. Just running into a lot of tanks that take (what seems to me) too much damage ALL the time. Doesn't make runs too enjoyable especially if I don't get any upgrades.


    Does anyone know if absorbs count toward HPS?

    edit* corrected. As I write this I'm doing 12k+ hps.
    Last edited by mrnails; 05-04-2015 at 11:21 PM.
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  13. #13
    Plane Touched
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    HPS = Heals Per Second

    You were not pulling 2mil HPS.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrnails View Post
    That can't be right. 15k and everybody dies. Like my quote below I've sustained over 1 million hps (for group) and I still have had hard times. Yes, I'm a fresh 65 and still have 3 more pieces of gear to upgrade (from lvl 60 gear), but 15k would get me perbanned from NTE's.



    Yeah, that was my hps for group and still had a hard time keeping ppl alive. They probably standing in red for all I know.. I was just trying to keep myself AND them alive. : /




    Ok. I figured as much. Just running into a lot of tanks that take (what seems to me) too much damage ALL the time. Doesn't make runs too enjoyable especially if I don't get any upgrades.


    Does anyone know if absorbs count toward HPS?
    You are definitely miss reading something. 2m HPS means every second you are healing about 5 times the total group HP every second.

  15. #15
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    Its not so much a numbers game, especially when it comes to HPS. Whats more important is that you use the proper spec for the encounter. That means you should be changing specs between boss and trash pulls.

    Each class should have at LEAST 2 specs before attempting an expert:

    Mage
    1. Stormcaller
    2. Pyro

    Rogue
    1. 1 Button sab
    2. MM

    Warrior
    1. Champion
    2. Reaver
    -note: since reaver is so versitle in this case you can run only reaver

    Cleric
    1. Cabalist
    2. Inquisitor


    I am not saying these are the best specs. What I am saying is that to not be an aye-hole, you should have at least these two. Pull 15k on trash is worse, imo, than pulling 15k on boss.
    Last edited by OmegaDagger; 05-04-2015 at 11:19 AM.

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