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Thread: best tank healer?

  1. #1
    Soulwalker pacgod's Avatar
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    Default best tank healer?

    been awhile since i've played and was wondering what the best tank healer in the game is and why?

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    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    Purifier, because absorbs.

  3. #3
    Soulwalker pacgod's Avatar
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    awesome . if you don't mind me asking what weapon setup is bets for healing? (staff/one handed and off hand/2h hammer).

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    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    Whichever one you have the best items for. Other than that, it does not matter one bit, because the total amount of stats on a 2h vs. a one-hander + offhand are the same (assuming that they are of the same item level).

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    This may go against conventional wisdom, but I still think that a good chloro can put out more tank heals than a puri's Shields and heals combined. And with chloro you always know how much health you are working with. With puri you don't know if your shield crit or not, so you never know how much ehp you are working with. I know inflated health pools are nice, but a good chloro is imo just as good, if not better than a puri.
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  6. #6
    Champion of Telara
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    A good chloro can output more tank overheals

    Healing in Rift isn't a matter of managing your resources like in most other RPGs, it's a matter of managing your oh-**** abilities so that you don't run out of them when needed. Outside of those moments, healing in Rift is an overhealing festival, assuming you have the gear intended.

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    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doood View Post
    This may go against conventional wisdom, but I still think that a good chloro can put out more tank heals than a puri's Shields and heals combined. And with chloro you always know how much health you are working with. With puri you don't know if your shield crit or not, so you never know how much ehp you are working with. I know inflated health pools are nice, but a good chloro is imo just as good, if not better than a puri.
    It's not about healing, it's about surviving burst.

    Tanks take absurd burst damage in raids, and because absorbs let you heal a tank to more than their max HP, Purifier is drastically better at keeping tanks alive than any other healer. You could increase Chloro healing output by 50% and it still wouldn't change that.

    It's the main reason why Purifier needs to be heavily reworked-- all of the other ST healing specs are flat-out inferior at keeping tanks alive, which is why 61 Sentinel and 61 Physician aren't used in raids. The only reason that Chloro sees any use is because it significantly increases raid DPS and can also AoE heal if needed, which means that if you're on a fight where the tanks aren't at extreme risk of dying, you can replace the purifier with a chloro to shorten the fight.
    Last edited by Muspel; 04-24-2015 at 08:42 AM.

  8. #8
    Soulwalker
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    What about keeping Purifier the way it is and change the other classes ? Purifier isn't too strong, it's more like other classes are not strong enough for that role (i.e. tank healing)

  9. #9
    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gefnfrigg View Post
    What about keeping Purifier the way it is and change the other classes ? Purifier isn't too strong, it's more like other classes are not strong enough for that role (i.e. tank healing)
    Because of what Purifier does to the game as a whole.

    There's actually a lot of problems nested inside of each other here, but I'll try to unravel it.

    The first problem is that healer output is much too high relative to tank health. This applies to both sustained healing and burst healing-- in other words, if a series of attacks doesn't kill the tank before the healer can react, then the tank will be immediately topped off, and the resources that are expended to do that regenerate much too quickly.

    This means that in order to threaten tanks, bosses need to be able to do more damage than the tank's health within very short windows of time. This causes the value of endurance, armor/resistance, and Guard to skyrocket, because they affect EH, while dodge and block become worthless.

    Simultaneously, any other effect that raises tank EH, even temporarily, is also amplified in effectiveness, far beyond what the numbers would indicate. Shielding a tank doesn't just let you pre-heal, it lets the tank flat-out survive damage bursts that would otherwise kill them.

    And because everyone uses purifiers, the bosses are tuned for that. And so bosses have to hit even harder, so that those shields don't trivialize the mechanics.

    It means that instead of being a matter of reacting intelligently to the situation, healing is about pre-loading the tank with cooldowns and absorbs before massive hits, and nothing else matters. It robs the gameplay of any depth or strategy, since all you do is spam absorbs and heals on the tank regardless of whether or not he's taking damage, because it's not like you're going to run out of resources.

    And Nightmare Tide actually made this even worse. In Storm Legion, the tanking souls had very high endurance multipliers, which meant that gearing up increased your health by a larger amount. This was important because otherwise, healer output would scale faster than tank health increases, meaning that heals begin to restore ever-larger percentages of a tank's health even when both tanks and healers are gearing up at the same rate.

    But in Nightmare Tide, those endurance multipliers were changed into base health multipliers, and tank health now scales at less than half the rate it did before. Healer scaling, meanwhile, remains untouched. In T3 of Storm Legion, tank health had actually scaled faster than healer output, which meant that in some circumstances, there was actually some granularity to tank survival-- the difference between a tank at 40% and a tank at 70% mattered occasionally, instead of both of them being a case of "will die on the next hit".

    That's no longer the case. If a tank is not topped off (or very close to it), they are going to die from the next hit, because healers are nuking the tanks for massive amounts and the bosses are hitting even harder.

    Purifier is one of the many factors that contributes to this problem. It's toxic to the game, and it really needs to go. It's fine for absorbs to exist, but they need to be heavily limited, ideally by being reserved for abilities with long cooldowns.
    Last edited by Muspel; 05-01-2015 at 07:40 PM.

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    Ascendant Ianto Jones's Avatar
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    Thanks for reminding me that I'm not alone in this crusade, Mussels.

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    Absorbs and Divine Favor is a combination that no one else can even get close to.

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    Ascendant Snap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ianto Jones View Post
    Thanks for reminding me that I'm not alone in this crusade, Mussels.
    Latent Blaze should totally be changed into a shield that proc when the tank goes under 90% health.
    Same amount of shield as the old healing value of course.
    Also Divine Flavor of the Month should be changed to shields instead of heals when specced into Purifier.

    Purifier needs more shield!
    Last edited by Snap; 05-01-2015 at 01:35 PM.
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  13. #13
    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ianto Jones View Post
    Thanks for reminding me that I'm not alone in this crusade, Mussels.
    It's Muspelli now, along with my rogue compatriots Geryoni, Adastrami, Beefnine, and Arbaalini.

    We're going to open a deli!

  14. #14
    Telaran
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    I think I've seen your post or a similar post on this topic before and agree wholeheartedly on it.

    The fact that heals > faster than tank hp means future encounters become more and more oneshot related. The only thing that has been countering that is when you can heal OVER the tanks hp (ie absorbs).

    So change the ratio between heal growth vs hp growth, or start making all heal classes have 'beneficial overheal' capabilties.

    Now that I think about it, couldn't you just change (lower) the ap/weapon dmg contribution ratios of all heal/absorb skills?

    Quote Originally Posted by Muspel View Post
    Because of what Purifier does to the game as a whole.

    There's actually a lot of problems nested inside of each other here, but I'll try to unravel it.

    The first problem is that healer output is much too high relative to tank health. This applies to both sustained healing and burst healing-- in other words, if a series of attacks doesn't kill the tank before the healer can react, then the tank will be immediately topped off, and the resources that are expended to do that regenerate much too quickly.

    This means that in order to threaten tanks, bosses need to be able to do more damage than the tank's health within very short windows of time. This causes the value of endurance, armor/resistance, and Guard to skyrocket, because they affect EH, while dodge and block become worthless.

    Simultaneously, any other effect that raises tank EH, even temporarily, is also amplified in effectiveness, far beyond what the numbers would indicate. Shielding a tank doesn't just let you pre-heal, it lets the tank flat-out survive damage bursts that would otherwise kill them.

    And because everyone uses purifiers, the bosses are tuned for that. And so bosses have to hit even harder, so that those shields don't trivialize the mechanics.

    It means that instead of being a matter of reacting intelligently to the situation, healing is about pre-loading the tank with cooldowns and absorbs before massive hits, and nothing else matters. It robs the gameplay of any depth or strategy, since all you do is spam absorbs and heals on the tank regardless of whether or not he's taking damage, because it's not like you're going to run out of resources.

    And Nightmare Tide actually made this even worse. In Storm Legion, the tanking souls had very high endurance multipliers, which meant that gearing up increased your health by a larger amount. This was important because otherwise, healer output would scale faster than tank health increases, meaning that heals begin to restore ever-larger percentages of a tank's health even when both tanks and healers are gearing up at the same rate.

    But in Nightmare Tide, those endurance multipliers were changed into base health multipliers, and tank health now scales at less than half the rate it did before. Healer scaling, meanwhile, remains untouched. In T3 of Storm Legion, tank health had actually scaled faster than healer output, which meant that in some circumstances, there was actually some granularity to tank survival-- the difference between a tank at 40% and a tank at 70% mattered occasionally, instead of both of them being a case of "will die on the next hit".

    That's no longer the case. If a tank is not topped off (or very close to it), they are going to die from the next hit, because healers are nuking the tanks for massive amounts and the bosses are hitting even harder.

    Purifier is one of the many factors that contributes to this problem. It's toxic to the game, and it really needs to go. It's fine for absorbs to exist, but they need to be heavily limited, ideally by being reserved for abilities with long cooldowns.

  15. #15
    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruupi View Post
    Now that I think about it, couldn't you just change (lower) the ap/weapon dmg contribution ratios of all heal/absorb skills?
    Yes and no.

    That would fix the problem of healers scaling faster than tanks, but it creates another problem that's not easy to solve-- namely, the fact that damage that players take is tuned around the assumption that healers can top people off quickly. If you cut healer output, then many encounters will become impossible (or at least significantly more difficult), and re-tuning every encounter in the game is a lot of work.

    Because of this, fixing healing will probably have to wait until the next expansion. In the meantime, though, T3 raids could get a band-aid fix via a zonewide debuff that reduces healing by 50% or something (or at least test the waters by giving a single boss a mechanic like that and seeing what it does to balance).
    Last edited by Muspel; 05-05-2015 at 12:03 PM.

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