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Thread: Are hybrid classes viable?

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    Soulwalker NikolaiLev's Avatar
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    Default Are hybrid classes viable?

    By hybrid, I mean classes that don't go 61 in a single soul. Most Presets I see are 61, with only a few across all the classes that do something like 50 max or 40-30 (the Skirmisher comes to mind).

    Are these just dev-approved builds and there are far more viable builds? Are the Presets actually weak, leaving even fewer viable builds? Or is RIFT balanced well, with hybrids being just as or only slightly less viable compared to more specialized options?

    Obviously, viability is less important to a new player who isn't facing veteran PvPers or difficult raids. But it's still something I'd like to know about, because I'd love to have a class that, say, supports as well as DPSes (while obviously not being as good at either compared to a specialized character, but still being useful to a group).

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    Quote Originally Posted by NikolaiLev View Post
    By hybrid, I mean classes that don't go 61 in a single soul. Most Presets I see are 61, with only a few across all the classes that do something like 50 max or 40-30 (the Skirmisher comes to mind).
    Rogue: 38 Assassin, 38 Nightblade
    Mage: 41 Stormcaller + anything shrug

    because I'd love to have a class that, say, supports as well as DPSes (while obviously not being as good at either compared to a specialized character, but still being useful to a group).
    Mage: Archon Hybrids are better than 61Archon for the most part.
    40 Stormcaller, 36 Archon
    40 Archon, 32 Harbinger

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    Ascendant Crithappens's Avatar
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    The game is balanced around 61 point builds, but some hybrid options remain, primarily for Mage and Rogue.

    Even then, hybrids aren't a priority of design. If they're found and become too powerful, they get nerfed. If they're just competitive, they get left alone.

    Don't pay any attention to those pre-made soul builds, they're aimed solely at new płayers.

    People will tell you the game used to have more hybrid options, and while that's true it's also an exaggeration. A lot of those hybrids were just plain broken and were forcing design decisions to be made around specific hybrids (I'm looking at you, Sabdancer and -icar hybrids)
    Rahka@Wolfsbane

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    Soulwalker NikolaiLev's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crithappens View Post
    The game is balanced around 61 point builds, but some hybrid options remain, primarily for Mage and Rogue.

    Even then, hybrids aren't a priority of design. If they're found and become too powerful, they get nerfed. If they're just competitive, they get left alone.

    Don't pay any attention to those pre-made soul builds, they're aimed solely at new płayers.

    People will tell you the game used to have more hybrid options, and while that's true it's also an exaggeration. A lot of those hybrids were just plain broken and were forcing design decisions to be made around specific hybrids (I'm looking at you, Sabdancer and -icar hybrids)
    That's quite sad to hear, though not entirely unexpected. It does seem strange to have three souls but to primarily only use one.

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    Telaran
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    Here are a couple more:
    Warrior (support): Beastmaster is almost never played 61
    Rogue (aoe heals): Physician/Tactician blend

    I've also seen a Defiler/Sentinel healing/support build for Clerics for PVP, but I can't speak to how viable it is.

    Since you are interested primarily in support, one thing you'll notice is that a lot of the builds listed are support builds. The Beastmaster and Archon hybrids in particular are aimed at exactly what you mention you are interested in - adding more dps to a support class. It's worth mentioning that all of the support specs (pure or hybrid) do include both elements of dps and support.
    Last edited by Valysian; 04-13-2015 at 07:34 AM.

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    You cannot have both hybrids and pures viable in a game where numbers are the means and the end. If hybrids are viable, then pures aren't. If pures are viable, then hybrids aren't.

    In a game with set roles (tanking, healing, dpsing, supporting), having as many possible points in a soul that is designed for that should be bringing the best results. If, for example, going 50/26 as a tank/dps soul brings about the best tank potential, then that is by definition broken. The case for pure damage dealing is more blurred since one could say that 61/10/5 should be about the same as 45/31 or 26/25/25, but then you're treading into the path of "Jack of all trades, master of none".

    There is a way to bring about hybrids, especially for PvP content where pure numbers aren't exactly the defining factor, but it would require the redesign of almost every single soul. Imagine if soul trees looked something like this:

    - Points 1 to 30 -> small almost unnoticeable boost to numbers brought about by role (for example 0.5% damage/hp per point, abilities that eventually are at the lowest spectrum of the priority list, abilities that have minimum interaction with other souls.
    - Points 31 to 50 -> Everything utility oriented (long duratoin raid buffs, movement abilities, crowd control, get-out-of-cc, cleansing etc.)
    - Points 51 to 60 -> 1-2 high priority abilities and important passive boosts (for example 2% damage per point)
    - Point 61 -> Most important active ability of the soul for it's designated role.

    PvE would favor 61point builds then and PvP would favor 51/25 or maybe 41/30 or 31/31/14 or something.

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    Rift Disciple Aksinan's Avatar
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    Many off the best builds in the game are hybrids. The things is that basicly the only difference compared to "before" is that now there are way more balanced 61point builds rather than mostly hybrids. On top off my head these are some off the best hybrids in game.

    Mage
    Storm/Necro
    Harb/Chon
    Storm/Chon
    Storm/harb

    Rogue
    Nb/sin (pvp)
    38/38 (also NB/sin but PvE)
    Phystact (Rogue aoe healer.)
    Bard/NB (PvP)

    Cleric
    Here it is abit worse. But there are some insanly good Defiler and oracle hybrids that are primarily used for PvP.

    Warrior
    Reaver/Paladin (PvP build)
    Beastmaster/Paragon (2 different variants)
    Void knight/Para/Lib (PvP

    These are just some on top off my head! There are PLENTY more.
    Hybrids arn't dead!!! Hybrids are awesome at many places!!
    But the difference today compared to vanila is that there isn't any longer 1 cookiecutter build for each class that can do everything best (Besides the abomination called Reaver......)
    Last edited by Aksinan; 04-13-2015 at 09:00 AM.

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    Rift Disciple lightningpaw's Avatar
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    If you want to play hybrids, go Mage or Rogue. Mage has numerous 41 SC builds for DPS and for support there are SC/Pyro/Harb-Archon hybrids, although you will not see Archon/Pyro in top-tier progression raiding. Mages really only use 61pt builds for tank and healer (with the exception of 61 SC for trash DPS), although 61 Pyro is still useful in a couple encounters despite being underpowered otherwise.

    Rogues have NB/sin which is one of the best DPS builds in the game currently and if I remember correctly, it either is or is close to a perfect 38/38 split build. They also have Phys/Tact for raid healing which I believe is preferable to a Warden for those scenarios.

    Clerics basically get nothing as far as hybrids.Even 61 Inquisitor isn't what it was at the beginning of NT, but I believe 61 Shaman is being worked on. No idea though if this is going to lead to any hybridization ability in 3.2+.

    Warriors don't have much in the way of PvE hybrids that I'm aware of other than some ~48pt BM support builds, but not every encounter is going to be ideal for BM and some guilds might have an aversion to using them. 61 Reaver is another of the top DPS builds atm and the Warrior also has 61 Lib and a couple of 61pt tank builds available, so there isn't much need at the moment for Warriors to mess with hybrids.
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    Soulwalker NikolaiLev's Avatar
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    One of my favorite builds so far is primarily Beastmaster, with some Paladin and Warlord. It gives me tankiness and supporting power while still allowing me to DPS. I also use a Cleric that has Druid, Justicar, and Sentinel for Conviction-granting life abilities (though Banish doesn't seem to proc on Cavalier, so I might change it to Shaman). My rogue is Ranger, Sab, MM. I wanted to fit Bard into a role but I can't seem to find any synergies to make the role even passable. Riftstalker+bladedancer+assassin is fun too.

    I'm just worried about at what point these classes will become unviable. Respeccing is cheap, but I'd still like to play something I customized myself without being utterly useless. "Sub-optimal, but useful" is far more acceptable than, say, "Kicked out of every raid/pvp group."

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    Ascendant Crithappens's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NikolaiLev View Post
    I'm just worried about at what point these classes will become unviable. Respeccing is cheap, but I'd still like to play something I customized myself without being utterly useless. "Sub-optimal, but useful" is far more acceptable than, say, "Kicked out of every raid/pvp group."
    People typically won't care until you reach max level.
    Rahka@Wolfsbane

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    Plane Walker CKat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crithappens View Post
    Don't pay any attention to those pre-made soul builds, they're aimed solely at new płayers.
    Only most of those new players will never come read forums and discover some other more viable build, even if they do all they can find is top dps builds aimed at top dps raiders numbers crunching discussions which is about maybe 3%? of the Rift gaming population.
    Props to Burningalways making guides for the rest though, but all together that is one huge Trion fail.

    Oh and what if the guy wants to play his sub optimal build at 65?
    Last edited by CKat; 04-15-2015 at 02:23 AM.

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    Shield of Telara Necalli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NikolaiLev View Post
    One of my favorite builds so far is primarily Beastmaster, with some Paladin and Warlord. It gives me tankiness and supporting power while still allowing me to DPS. I also use a Cleric that has Druid, Justicar, and Sentinel for Conviction-granting life abilities (though Banish doesn't seem to proc on Cavalier, so I might change it to Shaman). My rogue is Ranger, Sab, MM. I wanted to fit Bard into a role but I can't seem to find any synergies to make the role even passable. Riftstalker+bladedancer+assassin is fun too.

    I'm just worried about at what point these classes will become unviable. Respeccing is cheap, but I'd still like to play something I customized myself without being utterly useless. "Sub-optimal, but useful" is far more acceptable than, say, "Kicked out of every raid/pvp group."
    Basically you can play any build you want to make until you get to end game content (expert dungeons, raids, ect.). How effective it may be is totally dependent on the build, but as far as true hybrids go for raiding and what not there are a few hybrids that are dev approved, but more or less you'll end up going 61 points into something if you want to do that kind of content.

  13. #13
    Telaran
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    Thumbs up no cleric hybrids?

    Currenly among my roles:
    -44defiler/28sentinel/4oracle pvp heals
    -48oracle/26warden/2inq pvp supp with 4x aoe cleanse (damn you reavers) dps oriented
    -41oracle/35warden/0puri pvp supp with same cleanses, other point spread focused on heals
    -38puri/38defiler troll pve dungeon healing spec for **** tanks (links+shields... nerfplox)
    -40defiler/36cabalist dungeon "trashistoohardformyhealerandtank" support
    -51oracle/13sentinel/12justicar righteous mandate on tank, oversight on & go expert heal spec (does need gear on you or tank tho)
    -41oracle/35shaman RotN+battle fury burst in pvp... oh lawd

    There ya go... 7 hybrids, none of these are viable in raids... but who cares, they serve their purpose in other areas of the game... and most of all are more fun to play & theorycraft with than the standard 61pt cookiecutter builds...

    @NikolaiLev for bard hybrid, pretty sure they have a similar build to oracle/shaman but with nightblade... dont know the exact ins and outs (dont play rogue) but I've heard about it, and seen its effectiveness in pvp

  14. #14
    Rift Chaser
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    yep Hybrids are viable for lots of things except very few are accepted for raids.

    my personal favorite is to heal experts with 46 Druid / 28 Justicar / 2 Inq and watch the groups confused faces when im not at the bottom of the dps meter and the tank is still alive. (granted you need some good gear for you and the tank esspecially since you have no healing CD's or direct healing abilities, so mainly save this for Guild runs)

    the question is not "are hybrids viable?" its "what are hybrids viable for?"

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    RIFT Guide Writer
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    Quote Originally Posted by CKat View Post
    Only most of those new players will never come read forums and discover some other more viable build, even if they do all they can find is top dps builds aimed at top dps raiders numbers crunching discussions which is about maybe 3%? of the Rift gaming population.
    Props to Burningalways making guides for the rest though, but all together that is one huge Trion fail.
    You can pretty firmly throw that blame on those guys who wanted to "compete" to have their premades listed but called ******** on all the people posting up guides for the most commonly accepted and raid viable builds.

    That on top of those builds being designed like... 9 months ago now, I think? Yeah, premade builds are no bueno.
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