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Thread: Difference between warrior and rogue

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    Telaran discosoc's Avatar
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    Default Difference between warrior and rogue

    I'm just getting back in after several several years, and noticed that changes/streamlining of rogue and warrior resources have made them look basically the same from what I can tell.

    What separates the two classes in terms of how they play? How would you sell me on which is more "interesting" with the understanding of that being a subjective issue?

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    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    The rogue GCD is 1s, the warrior GCD is 1.5s (in most of their specs, anyways).

    Personally, I would recommend rogues. The warrior class has a number of significant issues right now in terms of design, which can make some of their specs significantly less enjoyable to play.

    Which is not to say that rogues are without their own problems, but the most frequently used rogue specs tend to be less clunky and more interesting, most notably Bladedancer. <3 Bladedancer.

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    Telaran discosoc's Avatar
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    What kind of issues are warriors having right now, that are unique to them? Just browsing the warrior forum, I'm really only seeing two main complaints.

    1. Melee sucks in Rift.
    2. Best (only?) dps spec is ranged.

    For point 1, it seems that melee rogues wouldn't fair any better. Is there something fundamentally flawed with warriors, or are the complaints mostly just of the balance/tweaking nature?

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    Sword of Telara Nithydux's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by discosoc View Post
    What kind of issues are warriors having right now, that are unique to them? Just browsing the warrior forum, I'm really only seeing two main complaints.

    1. Melee sucks in Rift.
    2. Best (only?) dps spec is ranged.

    For point 1, it seems that melee rogues wouldn't fair any better. Is there something fundamentally flawed with warriors, or are the complaints mostly just of the balance/tweaking nature?
    Melee not only sucks in Rift, but every aspect of the game is biased towards ranged. Unless you're a rouge in PvP.
    Niou Glitterdance - 70 The Silent
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  5. #5
    Prophet of Telara
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    1. Make warrior
    2. Spec in to 61 Reaver
    3. Spam 2 buttons
    4. own everything
    5. profit.


    You will get a CC break on 20s cd with a teleport and bonus movement speed on top of it and a self cleanse which removes all dots (even the ones which cannot be cleansed by normal cleanses. You will also get passive 10% dmg reduction and a mini stealth to get away when you get focused.


    Enjoy rolling your face on the keyboard for easy frags in pvp.
    Quote Originally Posted by elfaraon View Post
    you really need to play more pyro . I bet you are a warrior or rogue so your opinion is not accurate at all. By the way pyro is not even close to have the highest burst in the game tell that to a sin or warlord

  6. #6
    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by discosoc View Post
    For point 1, it seems that melee rogues wouldn't fair any better. Is there something fundamentally flawed with warriors, or are the complaints mostly just of the balance/tweaking nature?
    Some of their souls are burdened with mechanics that are clunky or otherwise poorly designed, such as the way that Tempest is basically designed to do all of its damage in half a second, Paladin's emphasis on blocking (when many enemies don't have any blockable attacks), or Riftblade's attempt to be a mix of AoE and ST but not doing very well at either.

    Again, it's not like the other callings are all sunshine and roses-- for instance, the rogue souls Saboteur and Tactician are a mess and will probably receive a complete overhaul at some point, but rogues are overall somewhat better off than warriors at the moment.

    As a rogue, you also have more of an incentive to use different builds for different situations rather than just sitting in the same spec all the time, which helps to keep things fresh and engaging.

  7. #7
    Telaran discosoc's Avatar
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    Thanks for the replies. I went ahead and rolled a rogue to compare to my warrior, but it's looking like so much of both classes don't come "online" until much later in the game when access to deeper talents and abilities are available.

    At this point (around level 20-30), both classes feel nearly identical to me. They are both built around 'builders' and 'finishers' and have the same basic set of tools. Combat feels about the same for each (charge in, build then finish, repeat a few more times, win). My warrior has at least twice the 1-hour buffs available compared to my rogue, but that just adds to Rift's feel of having a thousand small bonuses rather than a few large ones (another topic for another day).

    As silly as it sounds, I'm basically leaning towards my rogue simply because I like the human female dual-wield animation better, and she happens to be the rogue. I also like how rogue tanking plays out. Unfortunately, I seem to keep getting grouped up with people who insist on steamrolling the instances without bothering to let me actually tank, so I gave up on that idea.

  8. #8
    Telaran discosoc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muspel View Post
    Some of their souls are burdened with mechanics that are clunky or otherwise poorly designed, such as the way that Tempest is basically designed to do all of its damage in half a second, Paladin's emphasis on blocking (when many enemies don't have any blockable attacks), or Riftblade's attempt to be a mix of AoE and ST but not doing very well at either.

    Again, it's not like the other callings are all sunshine and roses-- for instance, the rogue souls Saboteur and Tactician are a mess and will probably receive a complete overhaul at some point, but rogues are overall somewhat better off than warriors at the moment.

    As a rogue, you also have more of an incentive to use different builds for different situations rather than just sitting in the same spec all the time, which helps to keep things fresh and engaging.
    How much of the warrior issues (or even just melee issues) do you think have less to do with class design, and more to do with the way Trion has designed encounters? I've never raided or anything here, so I have no first-hand experience with how they play out.

  9. #9
    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by discosoc View Post
    How much of the warrior issues (or even just melee issues) do you think have less to do with class design, and more to do with the way Trion has designed encounters? I've never raided or anything here, so I have no first-hand experience with how they play out.
    The problems that I'm talking about are with class design (with the arguable exception of Paladin, but when basically every single instance in the game has at least one encounter with no blockable attacks, I'd say that's an issue of the soul not fitting the content, not that the content doesn't fit the soul).

    Quote Originally Posted by discosoc View Post
    Thanks for the replies. I went ahead and rolled a rogue to compare to my warrior, but it's looking like so much of both classes don't come "online" until much later in the game when access to deeper talents and abilities are available.
    Unfortunately, this is true of all four classes. The downside of the soul system is that interesting and powerful abilities have to be placed deep in the souls so that you can't create ridiculously broken hybrids at endgame, when you have more points to throw around... but that means that at low levels, you have very few interesting abilities and are missing the core mechanics and talents for a lot of builds.

    Depending on the soul in question, most builds tend to come into their own at either level 41, 50, or 60, depending on how reliant they are on their 41-point talent, 51-point root, and 61-point root.
    Last edited by Muspel; 02-25-2015 at 08:40 AM.

  10. #10
    Rift Chaser Xentex's Avatar
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    The answer to the Rogue vs. Warrior vs. whatever else question really depends on what level and what aspect of the game you're talking about.

    If your focus is on level 1-64 PvE then either rogue or warrior is enjoyable, and I think Muspel hit the most important point of the 1 second vs. 1.5 second global cooldown. Rogues play "faster" than warriors in terms of button presses.

    When you're leveling you can play whatever style suits you. For rogues and warriors it's much more engaging and generally more effective to level in a melee spec. There are a variety of good leveling builds for both (although I suspect they're pretty well buried in the forums).

    At level 65 is when it changes to "all range all the time" for the most part. That's mostly because you don't do enough incremental damage in a melee spec vs. a range spec to make up for the incremental difficulty/risk of going melee. At least not if you're raiding, running expert dungeons, doing PvP, or doing rifts. (For open world content or chronicles melee builds are still effective.)

    I think Trion has done a pretty good job of balancing classes and making multiple roles for all classes viable and useful for most content. Anyone who feels underpowered or not useful playing any class (calling) in any content very simply doesn't know how to play. That's where most of the "blah blah build is overpowered" nonsense comes from - people looking bad and getting owned because they don't know how to play.

  11. #11
    Telaran discosoc's Avatar
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    After playing my rogue and warrior for a few days now, one thing I'm noticing is there seems to be a "disconnect" between hitting a button, seeing it happen, and seeing damage dealt. I don't believe it's network lag (my connection is fine in all other respects), and it's not an FPS issue (60+ fps pretty much anywhere outside of crowded areas).

    It feels.. mushy. I guess that's a good word for it anyway.

    When playing a cleric or mage, I haven't really noticed it. is this a known thing, or should I start troubleshooting the game or something? It definitely makes melee feel like I'm fighting underwater or something.

  12. #12
    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by discosoc View Post
    After playing my rogue and warrior for a few days now, one thing I'm noticing is there seems to be a "disconnect" between hitting a button, seeing it happen, and seeing damage dealt. I don't believe it's network lag (my connection is fine in all other respects), and it's not an FPS issue (60+ fps pretty much anywhere outside of crowded areas).
    Um... I'm not sure what that could be if it's not lag. Are you sure it's not just the GCD?

  13. #13
    Telaran discosoc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muspel View Post
    Um... I'm not sure what that could be if it's not lag. Are you sure it's not just the GCD?
    It's not the GCD. For comparison, in WoW or SWtOR, when I use an ability it triggers immediately (assuming it's not on cooldown). I see the attack happen, and I see the damage done with the screen text and the health bar drop.

    With Rift, it seems like there's a slight delay between doing something and seeing it happen. After further testing last night, I found it's not unique to melee, but is more obvious with it (for me anyway). It's like sometimes I have to press the button twice to get it to go off. Some things I've noticed about it (with no ability queuing enabled):

    1. If I use the ability as soon as the GCD shows I can, it usually won't activate despite the client showing that it's available.
    2. If I wait half a second or so after the GCD is supposedly off, the ability executes immediately.
    3. If I spam an ability over and over, it won't trigger until half a second or so after GCD indicates that it should be available.

    So basically it seems like there's some delay or lag or something between what the client says the GCD is, and what the server says it is. Meaning just because my UI says I can use an ability, I probably still have to wait a slightly longer or it won't trigger.

    If I set ability queuing to Full, this isn't an issue. However, the perception of ability lag is made worse because I'm now queuing a skill up and waiting for it to trigger. It loses all sense of responsiveness.

    All in all, it's making it difficult to build up muscle memory :/

  14. #14
    Rift Chaser Xentex's Avatar
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    That's just the way Rift is built. It doesn't bother me, but I know exactly what you're talking about. If it was a sports game or action game it would bother me.

    If you're the type where you want to press each key once and have a rhythm down then it's not going to work very well. What tends to work better for most people is you spam your keys until you see the ability has registered, then you spam your next key until you see that's registered, etc.

  15. #15
    Rift Chaser ILikeOranges's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xentex View Post
    At level 65 is when it changes to "all range all the time" for the most part. That's mostly because you don't do enough incremental damage in a melee spec vs. a range spec to make up for the incremental difficulty/risk of going melee. At least not if you're raiding, running expert dungeons, doing PvP, or doing rifts. (For open world content or chronicles melee builds are still effective.)
    This is completely not true, for rogues anyway, level 65 for me is all melee all the time, and I out dps myself, and most other people, in ranged specs. The only 'problem' with melee is you have to be good at it. The extra risk just makes it all the more fun. If someone wants to melee, honestly they just have to practice it a bit, all the raid leaders and community members that talk about 'ranged only all the time' is probably the reason for lack of melee.

    I've done every expert boss and every raid boss so far in a melee spec, and been at the top of the dps list for every fight too, so it is possible, and it pays off doing it well. The introduction of marksman means rogues have a competitive ranged spec, but honestly, the rotation of marksman (doing it correcly) is harder than playing melee anyway in raid.


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