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Thread: Stealthers

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    Shadowlander Zodiaz's Avatar
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    Default Stealthers

    Another thing I loved about DAoC. The stealther game! I hope they have some sort of assasination type class. The blade dancer looks the most stealthy so far. Any comments on the steather game?

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    Sword of Telara souper's Avatar
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    No, but there was mention of an "assassin" class. Could very well be a stealther but who knows? It's such a prevalent mechanic in MMOs that I'd expect to see it in Rift although I know many could live without any stealth what-so-ever.

    Stun-locks for all of Telara!

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    Plane Walker Fayde's Avatar
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    Stealth has all ways been one of them skills that kind of kills class balance unless it has a massive downside.

    To be fair i would be more than happy to not have any stealth and i think many others would be just give a class that would have stealth like a charge skill where they can run in fast and do a nice first hit but with a nice long cooldown so they can not abuse it to flee.
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    Champion MuckyPup's Avatar
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    Stun lock was not something DAoC had to deal with. There were no super sexy styles like in WoW. Get a PA (Perferate Artery) on a caster, and he could be gone in one shot, but the styles were mostly positional, so for a stealther to get you, you had to be in the right place, and not moving for the most part.

    If done right, stealth can be fun and balanced. Just none of that Cheap shot, Kidney shot, Gauge, Vanish, Cheap shot crap that made WoW so frustrating for alot of folks.

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    Shadowlander Zodiaz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MuckyPup View Post
    Stun lock was not something DAoC had to deal with. There were no super sexy styles like in WoW. Get a PA (Perferate Artery) on a caster, and he could be gone in one shot, but the styles were mostly positional, so for a stealther to get you, you had to be in the right place, and not moving for the most part.

    If done right, stealth can be fun and balanced. Just none of that Cheap shot, Kidney shot, Gauge, Vanish, Cheap shot crap that made WoW so frustrating for alot of folks.
    I agree 100%, they should make the class skill based rather then a faceroll class like rogue. There was only 1 stun that most stealthers had in DAoC and that was Creeping death. I think it was 2 seconds or so. I might even have the name wrong. Either way it was a chain ability too. So if you didnt get PA off you arent getting the stun off. Unlike WOW you just have to be stealthed to do it.

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    Shadowlander
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    Quote Originally Posted by MuckyPup View Post
    Stun lock was not something DAoC had to deal with. There were no super sexy styles like in WoW. Get a PA (Perferate Artery) on a caster, and he could be gone in one shot, but the styles were mostly positional, so for a stealther to get you, you had to be in the right place, and not moving for the most part.

    If done right, stealth can be fun and balanced. Just none of that Cheap shot, Kidney shot, Gauge, Vanish, Cheap shot crap that made WoW so frustrating for alot of folks.
    Exactly this. WoW left a very bad taste in everyones mouth about stealth. And I agree, being stunlocked to death does not take skill and it is not fun. DAOC had a very balanced stealth system for the most part, all your moves were based off of your position or an evade to start a chain of skills.

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    Ascendant Europe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MuckyPup View Post
    Stun lock was not something DAoC had to deal with. There were no super sexy styles like in WoW. Get a PA (Perferate Artery) on a caster, and he could be gone in one shot, but the styles were mostly positional, so for a stealther to get you, you had to be in the right place, and not moving for the most part.

    If done right, stealth can be fun and balanced. Just none of that Cheap shot, Kidney shot, Gauge, Vanish, Cheap shot crap that made WoW so frustrating for alot of folks.
    The problem with the WoW rotation is two-fold: kidney shot should never have worked right after cheap shot and vanish should never have worked in PVP.

    The whole idea of a PVP class based on stunlocks is absurd. There's nothing less fun than not being able to play your character for an entire fight.

    That said, I hope to see (and possibly play) a stealh class in Rift. I'd be more than happy to have no stuns at all.
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    Prophet of Telara Eldran's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Europe View Post
    The problem with the WoW rotation is two-fold: kidney shot should never have worked right after cheap shot and vanish should never have worked in PVP.
    Yeah.

    I think stealth itself can be an in interesting mechanic that adds an extra layer of strategy (and fun!) to a game. WOW just happened to overdo it with eg. being able to re-stealth in combat.

    I never played a rogue myself, but I enjoyed catching them with my warlock and hunter

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    Ascendant Apoth's Avatar
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    oooo talk about a touchy subject in games.

    I think the way EQ2 did it was best, where you could sneak around invisible, however if you got close up to someone they could see your outline and attack you. this made stealthing much more fun since you still had to use terrain to your advantage.

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    Rift Master Sinistrad's Avatar
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    Honestly I hate the whole idea of stealth = invisibility. If you want to be invisible, make some potions of invisibility or become a mage/wizard/sorcerer/etc. Any class who can take their opponent out of the fight, for the entire fight, is broken and needs to be reworked completely. You simply can't nerf that properly without it either being overpowered or underpowered, as there is no balance to be achieved. The very fact Blizz even made "PvP Trinkets" proves the whole system is broken.

    I'd like to see stealth do something like remove the stealthed character's floating name, make the character a bit faded, and prevent them being tab-targeted. That way, if you are standing in broad daylight you are still noticeable, but if you are crouched in a bush, shadow, or perhaps mostly submerged in water, enemy players would be very unlikely to notice you. Also, it would be nice if you could see which way a character was looking with their camera, so you could avoid their line of sight.

    This would add a lot of fun and a huge amount of skill to playing a stealth class. Also, remove stuns completely, make the stealthy person (or any class) choose which type of CC is most effective against their enemy. Don't give them anything which would disable someone completely.

    For instance, silence might only allow the casting of instant spells, trip might stop their movement for a second or two, and blind could give them a large miss chance with melee/ranged weapons. None of these things would completely disable a player, but it would make them more manageable, and force your enemy to constantly change their strategy.

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    Champion MuckyPup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinistrad View Post
    Honestly I hate the whole idea of stealth = invisibility. If you want to be invisible, make some potions of invisibility or become a mage/wizard/sorcerer/etc. Any class who can take their opponent out of the fight, for the entire fight, is broken and needs to be reworked completely. You simply can't nerf that properly without it either being overpowered or underpowered, as there is no balance to be achieved. The very fact Blizz even made "PvP Trinkets" proves the whole system is broken.

    I'd like to see stealth do something like remove the stealthed character's floating name, make the character a bit faded, and prevent them being tab-targeted. That way, if you are standing in broad daylight you are still noticeable, but if you are crouched in a bush, shadow, or perhaps mostly submerged in water, enemy players would be very unlikely to notice you. Also, it would be nice if you could see which way a character was looking with their camera, so you could avoid their line of sight.

    This would add a lot of fun and a huge amount of skill to playing a stealth class. Also, remove stuns completely, make the stealthy person (or any class) choose which type of CC is most effective against their enemy. Don't give them anything which would disable someone completely.

    For instance, silence might only allow the casting of instant spells, trip might stop their movement for a second or two, and blind could give them a large miss chance with melee/ranged weapons. None of these things would completely disable a player, but it would make them more manageable, and force your enemy to constantly change their strategy.
    I guess you definition of fun, differs from mine.

    I agree with the statements regarding stun locks and the like, but your idea of stealth seems boreing at best. I am not trying to dismiss your thoughts, just saying that we have different opinions, so please don't take offense.

    Now, if we are going to rework stealth, why not make it more of a camoflauge thing. You know, you are visible while moving, but if you stand still against a hillside, or near bushes, you become somewhat transperant. So at a glance you are difficult to detect. Any movement save cocking your bow, makes you non transperant again and sticking out like a sore thumb.

    Again, just my opinion and we all have our own.

  12. #12
    Soulwalker Humanity's Avatar
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    I came up with an idea for stealthing which is explained in details in the "suggestions forum" if any of you feel like checking it out. (don't want to double-post it)

    I'm confident it would appeal to many of you!
    Summary: Environment-based stealth.

  13. #13
    Soulwalker Hampo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinistrad View Post
    Honestly I hate the whole idea of stealth = invisibility. If you want to be invisible, make some potions of invisibility or become a mage/wizard/sorcerer/etc. Any class who can take their opponent out of the fight, for the entire fight, is broken and needs to be reworked completely. You simply can't nerf that properly without it either being overpowered or underpowered, as there is no balance to be achieved. The very fact Blizz even made "PvP Trinkets" proves the whole system is broken.

    I'd like to see stealth do something like remove the stealthed character's floating name, make the character a bit faded, and prevent them being tab-targeted. That way, if you are standing in broad daylight you are still noticeable, but if you are crouched in a bush, shadow, or perhaps mostly submerged in water, enemy players would be very unlikely to notice you. Also, it would be nice if you could see which way a character was looking with their camera, so you could avoid their line of sight.

    This would add a lot of fun and a huge amount of skill to playing a stealth class. Also, remove stuns completely, make the stealthy person (or any class) choose which type of CC is most effective against their enemy. Don't give them anything which would disable someone completely.

    For instance, silence might only allow the casting of instant spells, trip might stop their movement for a second or two, and blind could give them a large miss chance with melee/ranged weapons. None of these things would completely disable a player, but it would make them more manageable, and force your enemy to constantly change their strategy.
    I really like this idea. Make sneaking up on a player very hard and require skill, however with that make a rogues backstab very powerful.

    People will learn quickly to be observant of there surroundings .

  14. #14
    Rift Chaser Matt-Kire's Avatar
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    Stealth is a necessity... but I agree that it shouldn't render the player invisible

    Stealth should only be allowed in shadows... meaning you couldn't "disappear" in broad daylight

    and it should be removed the minute you leave shadows....


    I think a nearly invisibility in shadows is appropriate

    mages too often like to sneak in shadows... so I don't feel "sorry" for them being one shot while trying to play "shadow mage"

    you are in the shadows/darkness.... you should die by a stealther

  15. #15
    Shadowlander Zodiaz's Avatar
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    A stealther gains the ability to be quick with high burst and the ability to stealth or go invisible. Having these strengths you also lose high defensive cababilities. You wont have much armor and should be pretty killable. Thats where the skill comes in. You arent going to find many organized PvP groups having stealthers. An example would be DAoC. A normal hib 8 man would be (Hero/BM/Champ/Eld/Enchant/Ment/Druid/Bard) no way they are gonna fit a Nightshade or Ranger in there. So they have to be able to create a playstyle that would be able to suit the solo stealther as well.

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