+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 14 1 2 3 4 5 11 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 206

Thread: Stealthers, the game breakers?

  1. #1
    Telaran AhkoRevari's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    84

    Default Stealthers, the game breakers?

    I just have a few concerns about two of the 4 currently public "sub-classes" or "souls" for the Rogue type class

    From what I can tell, Assassin and Nightblade are based nearly 100% on killing the target in one big hit, or before they get a chance to fight back (which generally means one big one shot OR stunlock capabilities)

    Can we rest assured that THIS wont happen? ---> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAM1F94HHbU

    *I know this video is not an accurate depiction of 100% fair gameplay. I am simply using thi as an example to define MY meaning of "One-shotting" in a manner that is powerful.*


    What Im aiming at, No one likes to get killed in one hit by another player that should be consider "equal". No ones likes to be literally stunned from 100% to 0% health and have no possible way to fight back.


    Now I admit, I love the stealth classes, and by no means want to see them gone or their mechanics stripped. I just want to know if Trions plan is to have 1 shotting zergnauts or to make a class that Can still dominate but takes skill to do so. hopefully the latter.
    Last edited by AhkoRevari; 11-11-2010 at 07:39 PM.

  2. #2
    Rift Disciple Silverthorn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Kent, England
    Posts
    154

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AhkoRevari View Post
    I just have a few concerns about two of the 4 currently public "sub-classes" or "souls" for the Rogue type class

    From what I can tell, Assassin and Nightblade are based nearly 100% on killing the target in one big hit, or before they get a chance to fight back (which generally means one big one shot OR stunlock capabilities)

    Can we rest assured that THIS wont happen? ---> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAM1F94HHbU


    What Im aiming at, No one likes to get killed in one hit by another player that should be consider "equal". No ones likes to be literally stunned from 100% to 0% health and have no possible way to fight back.
    Hopefully there will be some adequate cc breaking skills for pvp souls, i'm sure we'll know more soon enough!

  3. #3
    Rift Disciple Tevesh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    101

    Default

    Something that concernes me more is that the alpha-version of the skillset for both assasIn and nightblade have quite a lot of stealth-based attacks, while the stealth skills are not usable in combat..

  4. #4
    Rift Chaser Zephyroth's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Montreal , Quebec!
    Posts
    321

    Default

    well.. that video is stupid.. rogue can sprint while hiden?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  5. #5
    Telaran AhkoRevari's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    84

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zephyroth View Post
    well.. that video is stupid.. rogue can sprint while hiden?
    Well yes they can but thats not my point. If you notice this rogue is mainly killing people with ONE out of stealth attack. Sometimes he doesnt quite kill them but instead brings them to about 10% and finishes them with as little as an auto attack. My point, and main concern, is to ask be sure that Rift is going to AVOID this.

  6. #6
    Champion Helspyre's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    506

    Default

    We don't really know much about how much damage they can do compared to other players.

    From what I have seen of the Assassin and Nightblade abilities, the CC is either short duration or breaks on damage. I think this a main key here, addressing part of your concern at least..

    The assassin can have perma-stealth midway up the tree while the Nightblade alone has a 30-sec stealth. Though they both have access to dots, the assassin seems to have more. The Assassin has more rear-position attacks (I assume more spike damage) and the Nightblade has a few 20m range attacks.
    The Black Company
    Of. By. For.

  7. #7
    Ascendant
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    1,775

    Default

    Fortunately, their stuns seem to break on damage.

    Like any stealth class in any game, they will need to be adjusted in some way once the real min and maxers work out the most optium builds and skills.

    The other thing to keep in mind is the amount of CC other classes have. Yes I expect a Rogue to be able to totally pwn someone 1 v 1... that is their role... but in a group they will just be stunned, rooted, dead, similar to Warhammer.

  8. #8
    Telaran AhkoRevari's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    84

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by solarbear View Post
    Fortunately, their stuns seem to break on damage.

    Like any stealth class in any game, they will need to be adjusted in some way once the real min and maxers work out the most optium builds and skills.

    The other thing to keep in mind is the amount of CC other classes have. Yes I expect a Rogue to be able to totally pwn someone 1 v 1... that is their role... but in a group they will just be stunned, rooted, dead, similar to Warhammer.
    Now I disagree with you. I dont think the Role of a Rogue is to "pwn someone 1v1". I think the role of a rogue is to add variation to PvP where everything is as close to equal as the developers can get it. I think an Assassin and a Justicar or a Ranger and a Warlock or a Champion and a Paladin should all have roughly the same chance,skills, and gear available to kill each other fairly in a close fight.

  9. #9
    Ascendant
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    1,775

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AhkoRevari View Post
    Now I disagree with you. I dont think the Role of a Rogue is to "pwn someone 1v1". I think the role of a rogue is to add variation to PvP where everything is as close to equal as the developers can get it. I think an Assassin and a Justicar or a Ranger and a Warlock or a Champion and a Paladin should all have roughly the same chance,skills, and gear available to kill each other fairly in a close fight.
    Rogues don't look for fair fights. They generally lose. Good rogues search out situations where they can jump you and push their advantage. If rogues are in this situation and are not winning 90% of the time they are not able to do their job. I am not saying a rogue needs to drop you in 5 seconds. But the rogue should walk away from most of these encounters with half health.

    And this is from someone who has no intention of playing a rogue.

  10. #10
    Rift Disciple Nimsul's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    114

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AhkoRevari View Post
    Now I disagree with you. I dont think the Role of a Rogue is to "pwn someone 1v1". I think the role of a rogue is to add variation to PvP where everything is as close to equal as the developers can get it. I think an Assassin and a Justicar or a Ranger and a Warlock or a Champion and a Paladin should all have roughly the same chance,skills, and gear available to kill each other fairly in a close fight.
    As the devs have said, they're not too concerned with balance.

    Rogues are just crafty bastards. That's it. They use guile and misdirection to take down enemies instead of brute strength.

    Assassins and Nightblades fit the credo "A dagger in the dark is worth a thousand swords at dawn".

    I'd rather see them handicapped to seperate the good Assassins from the bad ones. I have no problem with them taking down targets quickly. If they can get the jump on you, good for them. However, Stealth should be easy to see through so that Assassins and Nightblades aren't just running around infront of people while invisible. It should take a level of skill to sneak up on someone and take them down.

    The alternative is to make them hit and run specialists. If their CCs break on damage, then they can sneak up, unload on someone, flee and come back to finish the job after crippling their opponents.

  11. #11
    Telaran AhkoRevari's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    84

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nimsul View Post
    I'd rather see them handicapped to seperate the good Assassins from the bad ones. I have no problem with them taking down targets quickly. If they can get the jump on you, good for them. However, Stealth should be easy to see through so that Assassins and Nightblades aren't just running around infront of people while invisible. It should take a level of skill to sneak up on someone and take them down.

    The alternative is to make them hit and run specialists. If their CCs break on damage, then they can sneak up, unload on someone, flee and come back to finish the job after crippling their opponents.
    this I agree with. Trust me I love the stealth classes, and I plan on making one. However I garuntee that Iff I find out that at level Cap I can go around one shotting people then I swear to god Ill either hang up the class until its fixed or Ill go ranger/marksman pure.

    and No, assassins and Nightblades shouldnT be able to walk away from any fight at half health. Good Rogues against a decent player should be no question, more so destroy paticular person than another class.

    However consider this scenario. Player A is EXTREMELY good. Im talking best on his server. Player B is aweful, cant even solo NPCs 10 levels lower than him. An assassin comes in with a skill able to one shot Player A and Player B. The Nightblade can stunlock both Player A and Player B due to some traits in his spec that allow his stuns to not break on damage. What is the difference between A and B now?

  12. #12
    Telaran AhkoRevari's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    84

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by solarbear View Post
    Rogues don't look for fair fights. They generally lose. Good rogues search out situations where they can jump you and push their advantage. If rogues are in this situation and are not winning 90% of the time they are not able to do their job. I am not saying a rogue needs to drop you in 5 seconds. But the rogue should walk away from most of these encounters with half health.

    And this is from someone who has no intention of playing a rogue.
    While this may be true thought out logically, think of it in terms of the average player. Now I cant go out solo in fear of an assassin or Nightblade because I already know there is no hope of killing them? that isnt PvP, thats Aion all over again. I should be able to go out solo, get jumped by an assassin, and have a fair chance to win, MINUS the advantage they get from starting first. what I mean is that yes, Every class has some slight advantage from jumping the other class. Assassins more so than others, however it shouldnt be so great that it is impossible to counter.

  13. #13
    Rift Master Huebert's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    566

    Default Give it a year

    In a perfect forum nobody would start crying "OP classes" for at least a year. It seems that just as people cry too much - others begin L2P-ing their original classes. Then adjustments are made by devs to class balance which in turn then unbalances classes.

    Also, there is no need what so ever to have balanced classes. A faction needs to be balanced to the other faction. However, there is no need for a class to be balanced to have equal ability to a different class. Part of it being an MMO is that it becomes a social environment where classes work together to accomplish goals. Enough PVE content is introduced to permit solo play. If somebody is simply looking to duel all day, it turns into an annoying spam of dueling challenges.

    Classes only need to be somewhat balanced - not fully equal.

    Besides - the game has not even entered the open market and it seems we are already worried about class balance. This means there will be some scary threads to come after launch where poor and average players are upset that more advanced gamers pwn them.

  14. #14
    Telaran AhkoRevari's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    84

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Huebert View Post
    In a perfect forum nobody would start crying "OP classes" for at least a year. It seems that just as people cry too much - others begin L2P-ing their original classes. Then adjustments are made by devs to class balance which in turn then unbalances classes.

    Also, there is no need what so ever to have balanced classes. A faction needs to be balanced to the other faction. However, there is no need for a class to be balanced to have equal ability to a different class. Part of it being an MMO is that it becomes a social environment where classes work together to accomplish goals. Enough PVE content is introduced to permit solo play. If somebody is simply looking to duel all day, it turns into an annoying spam of dueling challenges.

    Classes only need to be somewhat balanced - not fully equal.

    Besides - the game has not even entered the open market and it seems we are already worried about class balance. This means there will be some scary threads to come after launch where poor and average players are upset that more advanced gamers pwn them.

    I disagree with not needed to have classes balanced. Im not always grouped, and I dont always have the option of having other classes at hand to work with. at some point, if not for the main part of my leveling, i will be soloing. This is where that one assassin hanging around the Defiant Camp or whatever i need to farm comes into play. I am solo and i have no option of having friends along. It isnt ethical to assume that based on that situation Im automatically a piece of meat and thats just the way it is.

  15. #15
    Rift Disciple Klyde's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    99

    Default

    class balance is and always will be a main concern for players both PVE and PVP oriented... nobody likes to be out-staged and nobody likes to be ***** without a fair chance to do so back

    in every game you play, there will always be 1 class that is better at something than another... and for that reason people generally roll those class's

    i doubt they will have BS like in your WoW video to deal with in this game... and stealth oriented characters aren't any more of a game breaker than any other class if left unbalanced, you could take a PVP video from any game on the net and in every game there is going to be a class such as an assassin... or a mage... or a tank... or a healer that rapes other class's, your best bet... is to simply avoid those OP class's when it comes to PVP and set your own rules as to who you pick your battles with unless you rolled on a PVP server... and if so... i could only hope you would have expected these problems from the start
    We cannot truly face life until we face the fact that it will be taken away from us. Billy Graham

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 14 1 2 3 4 5 11 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts