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Thread: If Tanks are easy

  1. #1
    Rift Chaser
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    Default If Tanks are easy

    Why are there so few..

    What i have noticed is if I use the lfg tool as a dps or support I get an average wait of 40 min .. if I go as a Tank or Healer its an average wait of 5 min

    But after reading thru many posts on this forum which state tanking is easy I find it confusing why no one plays em ..

    My tanking experience: 1st of I think I am an average Tanker and player I am not looking to play a game where I need to study spreadsheets and tutorials for every character I play , this should be learned thru leveling , if u need to study a game there is something wrong there ..

    My biggest gripe with tanking is agro , not one on one mob agro that's if fine holding agro , but really when do you every tank 1 mob at a time .. its the 5-10 mob holding agro

    some reason why I loss agro no one ever assist the tank most don't even know of Target of target ability .. then you have the people that decide to use tank pets or the dreaded Tab targeter's who pull mobs from everywhere and insist the tank picks em up . all these things lead to frustration and a non enjoyable experience.

    My skin is thick so go at lt with the u suck learn to play ect ect its fine .. but lack of tanks is a fact ..

  2. #2
    Champion Eilauria's Avatar
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    Threat after the initial pull should never be an issue for a Tank in Rift. if a Tank is losing threat he is not pulling correctly or a DPS is jumping the gun and attacking before the Tank does.

    There are several reason why fewer people play tanks.

    Its not hard by any means no, but its not as easy as DPS either.

    Tanks get more Flack when learning then any other Role. Have to have a thick skin in more then one way.

    Higher learning curve, Tanks simply have to know more about an encounter then DPS does, and a lot of people don't want to take the time to learn.

    Leadership position, by default Tanks are the group leader in most cases. Both by game design and player mindset. Not everyone feels comfortable being in charge.

    End Game wise there are fewer Positions available for Tank then DPS Or Heal. A raid may need at most 2 Tanks, but usually 2-5 Healers, and the rest is DPS and support.

    This is the only statement in your post that irks me, and I'd have to short ya on.
    if u need to study a game there is something wrong there ..
    Can you name any one Hobby or pastime you do not have to spend time to learn 1st, in order to be any good at it?
    If your unwilling to learn, then you might want to find something that interests you enough that you do want to learn about.

  3. #3
    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    Tanking is easy. However, being bad at tanking (or healing) is a lot more punishing than being bad at DPSing.

    See, if a DPS is bad in a dungeon, what usually happens is that things are just slower. Maybe that person will even die to mechanics, but it's usually possible, albeit frustrating, to carry through a DPS that doesn't know what they're doing.

    By contrast, a tank that doesn't know how to do their job will wipe the group on almost every single encounter. You absolutely need someone that can hold threat and keep their damage intake to a manageable level through proper use of cooldowns.

    In other words, tanking has a higher skill floor than DPSing does.

  4. #4
    Plane Walker Gehrgontra's Avatar
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    Fewer people tank than DPS even though it's easy because tanks are held more accountable for everything. They're expected to be the guide, the pace setter, the master of mechanics and encyclopedia of encounters. Not to mention fewer people find it satisfying compared to jockeying for position on the DPS meter.

    And as you said yourself...

    Quote Originally Posted by lukain View Post
    . . .then you have the people that decide to use tank pets or the dreaded Tab targeter's who pull mobs from everywhere and insist the tank picks em up . all these things lead to frustration and a non enjoyable experience.
    If you're too old to play with Legos, you still have some growing up to do.

  5. #5
    Rift Chaser Xentex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aarlis View Post
    At 133k HPs you are no where near noob-ish. you would be noobish at 104k -110kHPs. I often find point of view odd on these forms, calling peeps with 133k noobs is probably the reason most people dont tank. They read this trash, look at their HPs and give up.
    104K-110K is noobish for tanking nightmare expert dungeons. He's talking about a 20 man raid. 133k is borderline noobish for tanking in Mount Shrax.

    Otherwise all the reasons nobody tanks have been covered pretty well here. What I'd add is that in SL people used the excuse of not having gear, that's why tanks got into randoms instantly while everyone else waited 40 mins. So Trion made tank gear 50/50 on the loot tables, so nobody would have an excuse and then queues would hopefully be fast, since nobody had any excuse not to have a full set of tank gear.

    Surprise, surprise. Everyone has the gear but still relatively few people want to do it.

  6. #6
    Rift Chaser Orbitalz's Avatar
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    Tanking is just kinda of boring for the most part, I don't mind it quite so much with my mage in arbiter. I mainly just tank so I can get instant queues, since I hate healing in 3.0 and just don't do it. If you have general idea how to use your cooldowns, when you need to interrupt, and stuff it is easy. Most of the job falls onto the healer and hopefully the dps if they're worth a crap. There are many dps that are just bad, and that will make the fights last longer and the tanking a little harder with more adds and what not to keep track of. Bad dps make for sad tanks, since there isn't much they can do about that other than throw their aggro hammer and go grab a snack.

  7. #7
    Rift Chaser Orbitalz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lukain View Post
    My biggest gripe with tanking is agro , not one on one mob agro that's if fine holding agro , but really when do you every tank 1 mob at a time .. its the 5-10 mob holding agro

    some reason why I loss agro no one ever assist the tank most don't even know of Target of target ability .. then you have the people that decide to use tank pets or the dreaded Tab targeter's who pull mobs from everywhere and insist the tank picks em up . all these things lead to frustration and a non enjoyable experience.
    What class and spec are you using? All of them should have some sort of spam aoe dps that will keep aggro for the most part. The only time you might have some issues is with the tab target mis-pulls from dps and that is just on them. But most of those should be recoverable if you notice right away, have cooldowns up and the healer is good.

    Justicar have aoe hammer that with full stacks will hold aggro pretty well. There is a cooldown to get full stacks again and you can throw another aoe hammer for more aggro if needed, I usually cast the DoT first so it spreads for even more dmg and aggro.

    Arbiter has that icy blast I think it is called, great aoe dps spell that alone is great for aggro. Arbiter has a ton of aoe taunts too. Something is wrong if you cannot hold aggro as arbiter.

    Riftstalker has those teleports that cause a pulse around the tank, it will pick up the adds for the most part, then you also have a aoe cleave and taunt. I put those teleports in a macro and just chain use them and really don't have any issues with aggro most the time. I use the frontal teleport on a diff key and that does the same thing.

    I'm not that versed on warriors, trion killed my old aoe dps tank spec I actually enjoyed, so not really valid now. Void Knight is the only spec I used that is still useable. They have a aoe pull/teleport that is nice for initial pulls plus there are aoe dps that can be spammed and hold aggro for inital pulls even as well.

  8. #8
    Ascendant
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xentex View Post
    Surprise, surprise. Everyone has the gear but still relatively few people want to do it.
    Given the reasons already stated as to why tanking isn't hugely popular (leadership role being a prime one IMO) there's nothing that an MMO developer can do to encourage people to do it: it requires social engineering that isn't possible.

    I love tanking but I'm absolutely not a leader, thus I never tank in PUGs, I don't want to be expected to know what mobs need marking, kill orders, all the fight mechanics for roles that I don't have to fulfill; I'm no good at it and while I can and do tank pretty reasonably I do it by being able to focus on just the things I have to do, I need someone else to 'direct' the whole encounter.

  9. #9
    Telaran
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    Seeing a lot of tanks here so I'll pose a question.

    The last time I tanked anything it was as a warrior back during vanilla wow, blackrock/ molten core.

    Question is what class/soul would let me re live that experience.


    Thanks,
    Cenii

  10. #10
    Ascendant Snap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cenii View Post
    Seeing a lot of tanks here so I'll pose a question.

    The last time I tanked anything it was as a warrior back during vanilla wow, blackrock/ molten core.

    Question is what class/soul would let me re live that experience.


    Thanks,
    Cenii
    Warrior is the closest to WoW Vanilla Warrior.

    Paladin soul is all about retaliating after blocking attacks and is focused on physical mitigation with a AoE Lay on Hand style ability.
    Void Knight is all about control and damage. It's AoE DPS is through the roof for a tank spec.

    Only Warriors and Cleric have shields and Cleric is too close to a Paladin in WoW and is focused on healing to be like a Warrior.

    There isn't really any tank in Rift that is close enough to Vanilla Warrior tanking per say.
    Not enough shield bashing or stomping. There is too much magic involved in every tanking souls and not enough pure physical strength.
    Last edited by Snap; 01-17-2015 at 07:04 PM.
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  11. #11
    Rift Chaser Electrah's Avatar
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    Holding aggro in Rift is easy, which doesn't mean tanking in general is easy or that everyone can do it. Which you can easily prove by having a main spec dps with tank gear step in to replace a main spec tank on any raid encounter. The difference between a person who is used to tanking and a random person "who just has the gear" is quite noticeable.

    Personally I quite like that holding aggro is easy: it gives me more time to focus on all other aspects of tanking, battlefield management and directing the dps as some others brought up earlier.
    It allows me to be a lot more relaxed when tanking.

    Back in EQ2 for example it was paramount to properly time auto attack swings in-between using your skills, in order to hold aggro. Holding aggro with a heavily gear-dependant class such as Guardian was a struggle if one didn't have end-game gear (if the dps people knew what they were doing that is)...
    It's all about so much more than being able to take a beating, and hold aggro...
    Fantasy - 51 Justicar - Eyes of Eternity - Vigil (retired)
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  12. #12
    Shadowlander
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    Keep aggro is not hard on Rift, "sometimes". And that depend a little the class and spec.

    There is some weird things about aggro on Rift.

    My main spec is Warrior, Paladin and Void Knight, I play both =)
    I'm full purple NTE, with no blue pieces (upgrade the blue parts). My planar focus have essences with 140+ end, not reaaaly good, but not bad, since almost like the Nightmare Rift 3 essences on the Rift store.

    I have a DPS Rogue in my guild, he is better equipped than I with full NTE purples + 3 raid pieces.

    That happen a lot, I go there and get 5/6+ mobs, hit then with all my AoEs, then the Rogue use his CD like Bladedancer, hit 200k in burst, and then 2 or 3 mobs go to him, I use my pull, force they to attack me, 2 seconds after, they back to the Rogue and kill him.

    Man, I'm 1 year playing warrior tank, I can do wrong rotations sometime, I can sleep in job, but I know how VK and Paladin work and spend lot of time study that. I tank all T1/T2 from SL, is not like i dont know what Im doing there, and yet, I cant understand that random aggro loss for big AoE damages. I never have those problems pre-3.0.

    AND, to make it more weird, with my VK or Paladin all purple, I lose aggro in big pulls for huge DPS, but with my Riftstalker rogue, ALL BLUE, I can get 12 mobs without lose any aggro in NTEs lol.

  13. #13
    Rift Chaser Croix01's Avatar
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    I take my hat off to all tanks. Speaking from doing many many expert dungeons, I believe the role of a tank to be quite essential to any group. Indeed, most I have grouped with are the most patient, humble, and witty players in game. Most of the time they "lead" the group in a way that everyone agrees with and tolerate alot of crap. I encourage under geared aspiring tanks the best I can. Sometimes you get one that attempts dps instead of tank which never works out. Overall, they are some of the best players in the game and deserve our support and patience. Thanks!
    Niriena, Kearlet, Smilely, Rium

  14. #14
    Prophet of Telara
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    One word: Responsibility. Tanks are expected to know everything, to lead, to do the positioning, interrupting, purging (sometimes), add management etc etc. Tank screwups kill the group more often than DPS screwups. It's not about how hard it is to tank, it's about being willing to put yourself into that position and take the disproportionate amount of abuse that comes with it. Most would rather practice their rotation as a silent, faceless DPS.
    I will not delete my characters for an unwated server merge.

  15. #15
    Rift Chaser Croix01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Islesi View Post
    One word: Responsibility. Tanks are expected to know everything, to lead, to do the positioning, interrupting, purging (sometimes), add management etc etc. Tank screwups kill the group more often than DPS screwups. It's not about how hard it is to tank, it's about being willing to put yourself into that position and take the disproportionate amount of abuse that comes with it. Most would rather practice their rotation as a silent, faceless DPS.
    That is exactly it, right there why I have alot of respect for them. by default, when folkes see that shield by the name its a tremendous weight. Its frustrating to see many other players give them such a hard time with everything from interrupts to lack of hps. I hold my tongue sometimes and sometimes I lash out when it matters. you have your bold egotistic tanks too, but to be honest if they are playing that role im good with it. it fits
    Last edited by Croix01; 01-24-2015 at 07:20 AM.
    Niriena, Kearlet, Smilely, Rium

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