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Thread: Pet classes are second class citizens

  1. #1
    Ascendant Wing man's Avatar
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    Default Pet classes are second class citizens

    Because lazy devs find it easier to balance classes without pets.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kervik View Post
    There are ideas for updates to pet souls, but no work that is really scheduled at the moment. Once things get to a more finished state for 3.0 we'll be able to start looking at what sort of work we can do with more soul updates.

    Rabble rabble rabble!!!!!
    Last edited by Wing man; 10-03-2014 at 05:05 PM.

  2. #2
    Rift Disciple Zzuul's Avatar
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    I really would like to play a necromancer... but I don't because:

    The Necro abilities are underwhelming IMO...just really bland... so that is a turn off.

    Also...

    Since pet damage is important and pet damage is linked to how many points are spent in the pet souls you are basically forced into Necro Elementalist if you want max pet performance to supplement your boring arsenal of spells.

    But guess what.... there really isn't any stellar synergy with Necro Ele spells... and Ele spells are boring too...

    It ends up being a situation of being locked into a bland situation... and for all that, the pets aren't even all that great.

    Pets need some interesting abilities/flavor/maybe some CC abilities or snares etc. They also need to scale in damage better and not be tied to how many points are in the class tree... just based on level and/or the spell caster's stats.

  3. #3
    Rift Disciple MaxQuest's Avatar
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    Devs often struggle with balancing pets scalability. Moreover with providing pets with some sort of cc-abilities.

    Usual, lazy solution is to make pet-classes favorable for lowly-geared characters and avoid them from affecting much the pvp part of the game. And.. this is what we get: pet-souls are good for solo-leveling but for nothing more besides that.

    Tbh a first step would be: linear scalling of pets according to caster's SP/AP, total HP and character level, rather than just soul level.
    Last edited by MaxQuest; 10-04-2014 at 05:03 AM.

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    I'd just like some cooler storm-legion-style skins for the pets. Elves and satyrs don't really seem to fit in the newer content.

  5. #5
    Plane Touched
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaxQuest View Post
    And.. this is what we get: pet-souls are good for solo-leveling but for nothing more besides that.
    Ehem, 61 Ranger is the primary ranged spec for rogues, at least in PvE. Also BM is a viable archon alternative if played right. They do have their place in group content.
    As for the Necro and Druid, you're sadly kinda right...
    Athanil@Gelidra <Harshmallows>
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athanil View Post
    Ehem, 61 Ranger is the primary ranged spec for rogues, at least in PvE. Also BM is a viable archon alternative if played right. They do have their place in group content.
    As for the Necro and Druid, you're sadly kinda right...
    Please don't say that bm is a good pet class. What you are right about is that it is a good support class(hell even a DPS class!) If you ask me, if you removed our pet(which is kinda pointless-we have no CC, not even a snare for PvP and in PvE-no tanking stance!), we'd get better because we'd have to be recompensed.

    On topic:

    Every pet spec besides Ranger and druid is either bland or subpar. Druid is a very good solo spec and scales very nicely past 40 due to their pets scaling with druid's own spellpower. It even becomes a nice PvP and, I Dare to say it, a nice progression spec. Ranger is good mostly because of his skills and not his pets. But his pets are at least nice. A good PvE(rbeast), PvP(Wolf) and progression(raptr) pet. Couple that with nice, interesting skills and you have a good spec. All other are missing something:

    Beastmaster: really sucky pet mechanics
    Necromancer: reliance on another soul, boring mechanics
    Elementalist: reliance on another soul

    So, basically yes. We pet classes really need a Buff. I'd go as far to say that every pet class needs a Buff on a pet section besides a druid.

  7. #7
    Rift Disciple Zzuul's Avatar
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    I tried playing around with necro earlier today... it is SO boring.

    I really WANT to like Necro. I played a necro in EQ1... and I can SEE the EQ1 influence on the Rift Necro. It's there but it wasn't done right.

    Rough similarities:
    FD
    Snare
    Lifedrains/Soul Purge
    Some DoTs
    Pet tanking etc.

    The problem is EQ1 necro was actually fun and interesting whereas Rift Necro is dull and lacking any fun. EQ1 necro had a powerful mix of DoTs, Nukes, and Lifedrains that could be used interestingly and to great effect, supplemented by a melee pet.

    The Rift necro suffers from a serious lack of spells. Once you cast Reaper, Last Gasp and Parasite you are left spamming your bolt spell... and the previous spells have at least 20 second cooldowns AND they are not impressive damage at all. Last Gasp is interesting with the heal mechanic but it can also be extremely annoying and lock you in combat across the zone. Parasite only gets a few seconds in by the time it walks to the target. Not that it hits hard enough to do much.

    Empty the Crypts, Mass Grave, Possession are interesting, fun, and good dps... but jeez if the cooldowns are all in the 2 min range. Wow every 2 mins I can pop some insane dps...if I have the charge to spare. Cool. What about the rest of the time? Oh, better hope epidemic procs so I can toss more bolts!

    Also, Necro burst...if you can call it that... is clunky and funky. Corpse Talon requires 5 stacks of Death Calling for max damage and the 2 sec cast time kills it. Desecrate is instant but also requires 5 stacks with a 20ish sec recast. So does that Condemn... and again, all 20 to 30 second recast times. IMO corpse talon should be an inferno like ability...desecrate should hit like a diesel truck if its eating DCalling stacks and condemn needs to be untied from DCalling.

    Also, the Deathly Calling mechanic needs to go. If you are going to keep it then at least make it similar to the Stormcaller Electrified mechanic. Too much time/DPS potential is wasted waiting for the pet to apply stacks.

    Lich form is annoying to toggle... look I'm burning charge on Bone Frenzy and Empty the Crypts and whatever else...having to juggle a buff for 10% more damage that eats my charge and prevents charge gain is clunky as hell to manage and throws off the flow of the soul.

    Soul Purge- Works well in PVE, could maybe use a duration reduction but do more per tick. In PVP the self healing of this spell is completely broken due to the double-dip reductions it suffers similar to what Chloros dealt with before they were tweaked. Instead of healing for %damage done it needs to be a %of caster HP or spellpower or something so it can actually work in PVP.

    Corpse Explosion- when it works, it is great. However the recast is too long...again, a long recast that makes it hard to use/unreliable on an already hard to use/situational spell that doesn't really fit in a dps rotation.

    The Pet - the pets are decent enough if you put enough points in the soul. However, the melee pets need some flavor/utility. If the zealot is an assassin-ish pet, then make it feel like it. Give it some weak poisons or something that the necro can tell it to use for different effects...snare, crit bonus or something...no mana drain plz. Right now the zealot and the knight tank feel like they attack the same way..one just tanks a bit better, one just dps a bit better. BORING. Maybe give the tank pet a lifetap proc like EQ1 nec pets had.

    Last but not least: Remove the pet dmg increase per point spent in pet souls. It forces people into Ele Nec hybrids if they want max pet performance. Pet should get its stats based on the casters level and stats at time of summoning.

    In short: Necro needs better spells, shorter recast on the interesting ones, remove reliance on bolt spam/epidemic procs, non-clunky charge management/toggles, fix deathly calling mechanicand better pet scaling.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wing man View Post
    Because lazy devs find it easier to balance classes without pets.

    Rabble rabble rabble!!!!!
    Last I heard playing a pet class is optional, if you don't find them enjoyable there are plenty of others to try.

    I find several perfectly fun to play.

  9. #9
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    Playing druid would be so much cooler if the healing pet was a sadistic looking nurse with a syringe instead of a pink fairy. What I mean to say, they could earn lots of extra cash with some creative new pet skins. Even without adjusting stats.

  10. #10
    Shield of Telara Necalli's Avatar
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    I wouldn't say the class devs are lazy, but overwhelmed. I know Vladd has had his hands full from the 3.0 changes to Warlord, VK, Pally, and Reaver alone. Not to mention the other work he's had to do on the rest of the Warrior class. Rogues are still do for some work too. The Mage/Cleric dev has been cranking out the reborn souls for a couple of months now too. Don't forget they're also working on Masteries at the moment too. I really feel like they could use two more class devs to help with the workload.

  11. #11
    Plane Touched Kallig's Avatar
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    I never quite understood (and TBH still don't understand) why there isn't a Dev for each calling

  12. #12
    Champion of Telara Stihl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kallig View Post
    I never quite understood (and TBH still don't understand) why there isn't a Dev for each calling
    There used to be.
    Then they were consolidated. Kervik got Clerics, Ailion got Warriors. Since then Vladd has taken over for Ailion.

  13. #13
    Ascendant Ianto Jones's Avatar
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    Faster pace of change isn't necessarily better. Atrius found a new way to break Warriors every week, and there were several periods where Warriors had to learn a new spec every month. Ailion created absurdly overpowered specs, then continued sitting around buffing them while Riftstalker was so broken it was unplayable. For basically the entirety of Zinbik's tenure, Clerics were non-viable in a DPS role.

    2 competent devs > 1 competent dev + 3 guys playing darts with cruise missiles.

  14. #14
    Champion of Telara Stihl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ianto Jones View Post
    Faster pace of change isn't necessarily better. Atrius found a new way to break Warriors every week, and there were several periods where Warriors had to learn a new spec every month. Ailion created absurdly overpowered specs, then continued sitting around buffing them while Riftstalker was so broken it was unplayable. For basically the entirety of Zinbik's tenure, Clerics were non-viable in a DPS role.

    2 competent devs > 1 competent dev + 3 guys playing darts with cruise missiles.
    Let's not get ahead of ourselves. Still pretty disappointed with the state Riftblade is going live in. Out of curiosity I threw what I could into 1 button and pressed it for 5 minutes while watching last weeks Doctor Who.

  15. #15
    Rift Master
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    http://rift.magelo.com/en/soultree#eg/fkGl59kGEAg/hh88

    Should be decent and challenging to play to me for a Pet class maintaining the 2 warlock dots and the elementalsist's buff for the pet on top of everything the Necro has to offer as well.

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