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Thread: Support role

  1. #1
    Soulwalker
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    Default Support role

    Hey!

    I was wondering about the support classes. I have just returned to the game, and I have a rogue ment for support, and a cleric ment for heals. But now I see that clerics can do support as well. I also have a warrior and a mage mid levels.
    Which of these 4 brings the most support to the team?

    Im not after the one that does more dps of the supporters. Im looking for the soul that has the best buffs for his friends and debuffs for his enemies. Healing is ofc a bonus. But I want the soul that makes my friends become stronger and my enemies weaker.

    Any pointers for me here?

  2. #2
    Telaran Eudial's Avatar
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    AFAIK:
    Pure supports have two types (aka same/overridable buffs):
    Oracle/Bard
    Archon/BeastMaster

    Oracle and Archon currently slightly win out on DPS, so people complain that others are not useful in cutting edge progression raids.

    Tactitian and Defiler have support overtones. Dominator is more for PvP, since all the support skills are about CC (which don't work on bosses).

    Disclaimer, I don't have personal experience with most of them, just summarizing reputable forum opinions.
    Running Experts by moonlight.

    Eudial <Anarchy> - 65 Eth Mage @Wolfsbane

  3. #3
    Soulwalker
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    Thanks for the reply!

    I think Im leaning towards my cleric or my mage. Not sure which I want tho.
    Both the cleric and mage seems to have spells that increases dmg done to mobs, and also to increase attack and spell power on friends. They seem to be close to the same abilities actually.
    But mage and cleric spells will stack? Both cleric and mage have f.ex. increase non phys dmg taken by 7%. Will they stack?

    Which class is the least played?

  4. #4
    Rift Master
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    Cleric and rogue support buffs overwrite each other. Oracle does more damage, provides shielding, and has a double aoe cleanse. Bard does less damage, provides splash healing, and no cleanse. The actual buffs are the same. Preventive shielding is typically better than reactive healing, I'm sure the healers don't mind someone else helping with aoe cleanse, and oracle's damage can be pretty close to that of a full dps, depending on how many global cooldowns are used in supporting. There is no shortage of bards or oracles as far as I can tell.

    I can't comment as much on mage and warrior. I know their buffs overwrite each other, and archon (or pyrochon) is more desired than beastmaster. I also have noticed that in early stages of T1, it is somewhat difficult to find a good archon (pyrochon). I haven't seen dominator used in pve at all, though I believe there are some encounters where reflective command is useful, and dom was once useful as part of an aoe build.

  5. #5
    Soulwalker
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    To me it seemed like the archon and oracle had the same buffs/debuffs on mobs at least. But I guess they stack then, even if they are exactly the same

    Still need to pick one to continue leveling :P

  6. #6
    Plane Touched Ahielia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Balirion View Post
    To me it seemed like the archon and oracle had the same buffs/debuffs on mobs at least. But I guess they stack then, even if they are exactly the same
    They don't, they overwrite each other.
    Much easier to let archons do them on bosses/single trash mobs, as they do them naturally, whereas bards need to spend combo points that could be spent better otherwise.
    I normally do the debuffs on trash with lots of mobs, as bard debuffs (%phys/mag damage taken) are AoE.

  7. #7
    Plane Touched
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    I am not sure where people get the idea that archon > bm. Maybe this is a pvp thing, but in pve BM is invaluable. Since the changes to pyro (no double lava), you run both a BM and a pyrochon. Please stop spreading the misinformation that BM is bad or underpowered or useless. Enrage is amazing.

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  8. #8
    Rift Disciple
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    Instead of only telling that you run both pyrochont and bm ... could u also tell why? or maybe a guide which is doing?

  9. #9
    Plane Touched
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    I am not an expert on either but as I understand it there are two classes of support (as everyone knows), bard/oracle (B/O) and beast master/ archon (BM/A). Since the dps cooldown for B/O is a 61 pt talent, there are no hybrid options. Here, oracle clearly wins, since it does far more dps and has more effective healing with shielding.


    As for BM/A, the important CD's exist much lower in the tree. Therefore, there are a myriad of hybrid options. It is because of this that you can run both at the same time (of varying hybrid levels) and get more overall DPS for the entire raid. Mainly because (and there is probably more to it than this, but again I do not play either spec) with a bm and an archon hybrid, which both do non-trivial dps (~80-90% dps average), you get lava field and enrage.

    Also, any fight where purging is needed, Bm can cover it almost entirely (and if Bm is not sufficient then the oracle can back up.) This means no dps'er has to play a subpar spec to allow for purging, e.g. inquis and mm.

    Every raid should look into running a BM on Gorloch and Kyzan. Any fight that is relatively melee freindly, a BM can be utilized. It goes without saying that Magcilian is nigh impossible without one. Also, BM is invaluable in fights with very tight dps checks such as Krass, Laethys, and Mealforge.

    I know what you are thinking, "Who cares about t3, most people are even doing it." While this is true, why not run a comp that increases overall dps, despite it not being "needed".

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  10. #10
    Rift Disciple
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    Quote Originally Posted by OmegaDagger View Post
    I know what you are thinking, "Who cares about t3, most people are even doing it." While this is true, why not run a comp that increases overall dps, despite it not being "needed".
    well ... I want to play BM .... On about 4200 AP i am dealing about 18k dps in dummy in para spec. If i switch to 48 BM I am dealing 10-12k on dummy - that is about 66% while archont is almost not losing any damage. And - as you mentioned it - bm is melee and as such, you normally will loose dps on mechanics, disconnects etc while archont is range and not as vulnerable in dps because of that. - that is at least the opinion of my raidlead ......

    You are runing BM on Goloch because you need to asign many players to purge and the sum of all those dps loss is greater than the damage loss of bm - that is why you use a BM on purge heavy encounters.

  11. #11
    Plane Touched
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    who do you play with that doesnt lose dps with archon.... they must really suck with pyro

    Average Pyro with t2+t3 gear = ~36K dps
    Average pyrochon with t2 + t3 gear = ~24k

    Average Paragon with t2 + t3 gear = ~33k dps
    Average 48 BM with t2+t3 gear = ~24k dps
    Last edited by OmegaDagger; 09-25-2014 at 07:30 AM.

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  12. #12
    Telaran Firenzee's Avatar
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    For now, oracle.

    Signed, T2 bard.
    #2ez4frnz

  13. #13
    Shadowlander
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    I play both Bard (with Ranger subsoul) and BM (with Liberator subsoul). I enjoy both and they are very different to play. I don't raid, I'm not one of those hardcore 'this is the best spec and the only one anyone should ever play' sorts. Best suggestion I would say is to use the calculator on Magelo and play around with the different souls, see what looks best to you and try it out.

  14. #14
    Rift Master
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    I'm going to give you some great advice.

    Play which sounds the most enjoyable to you.

    And not just the support soul take all the souls in the class into consideration for something you going to be stuck playing for hopefully a very long time.

    Just because such and such soul isn't the best currently doesn't mean it wont change. Doesn't mean it wont get a raid spot. Doesn't even mean you CANT make it better or work for you.

    It just means its not as popular in the current game meta which can change with either information, content or actual changes to the soul/class.

    You have to roll with a LOT of punches in Rift. Might as well roll with it while playing a class you at least enjoy even though its not the flavor of the month.

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