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Thread: New to Rift: a WoW refugee.

  1. #1
    Soulwalker
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    Default New to Rift: a WoW refugee.

    I'm a tank. That's all I really like to do. I have a 20 Paladin that I am enjoying quite a bit, and a Justicar that is just getting started at 9.

    I know practically nothing about this game. It seems to be a blast to solo level as a Paladin. What is end-game content like? How is the gearing process? How do tanking mechanics differ from WoW now? I played since TBC, and this seems to be closer to WotLK tanking (that's a good thing).

    I just need generalities for now. I don't know jack-squat about abilities I'll have, builds I'll use, or anything like that. However, a few questions might help you help me.

    Is there any reason to level both the Paladin and the Justicar? Are there niches that each fills that the other can not? Or will I just need one or the other?

    I am used to a very special, defined, and immutable gearing strat. Currently, stack Haste as a WoW Prot Paladin. The gear here, at my ridiculously low level, seems to be all generic. I assume this changes. If it does, when, and what stats do I need to stack? Is the current tanking paradigm an EH focus?

    What important differences are there between tanking for each game?

    What are the encounters like? High movement? High tank damage? High raid damage?

    Thank you in advance.

  2. #2
    Rift Disciple Hargin's Avatar
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    Hellos and welcome to the game! Just poking to say that probably having a look and ask a few questions in the warriors section will be the best thing.

    Also youtube helps for endgame fight videos.

    Shamefully as a dps and support i cant help you hehe.


    As a former wow player myself, i can tell you that the classes versatility is the best thing ever. Do you know that warriors can be excellent ranged dps as well?

  3. #3
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hargin View Post
    Hellos and welcome to the game! Just poking to say that probably having a look and ask a few questions in the warriors section will be the best thing.

    Also youtube helps for endgame fight videos.

    Shamefully as a dps and support i cant help you hehe.


    As a former wow player myself, i can tell you that the classes versatility is the best thing ever. Do you know that warriors can be excellent ranged dps as well?
    I thought about the Warrior forum, but I also wanted comparative analysis on Paladin vs Justicar tanking.

    Thank you for the response, and I appreciate the welcome. I did not know that Warriors could provide ranged dps. Interesting! I always thought that WoW missed the boat on an Archer (non-pet class) as well as a Bard.

  4. #4
    Ascendant Intim's Avatar
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    Welcome to rift

    Levelling as a tank will be hard work just because of low dps. When you get to endgame you will flourish in dungeons but only tanking in a raid you are unlikely to get far as most raid groups or guilds want a tank who knows the ropes. Learning fights from guides and videos will help you break this stereotype.

    As to a comparison, not really into paladin as I've never played it but the justicar is a good tank for adds and ranged tanking
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    Plane Walker Furyon13's Avatar
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    Buy a couple more role slots from trainer. You can use a solo(overlord) spec for questing and tank spec for dungeon. First couple is cheap.

    Also INTIM and SEATIN run youtube channels with tonnes of good info. Check them out!
    Last edited by Furyon13; 05-14-2014 at 04:57 AM.

  6. #6
    RIFT Guide Writer Lethaemis's Avatar
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    For tanking it is hard to say which tank is truly better. Warrior, rogue, cleric, and now Mage are all viable in the end game. It really comes down to you which play style you like.

    I would also suggest trying to learn different builds on whichever class you decide to choose because even though you may love to tank, guilds value versatility even if you end up tanking everything.
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  7. #7
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Intim View Post
    1) Welcome to rift

    2) Levelling as a tank will be hard work just because of low dps.

    3) When you get to endgame you will flourish in dungeons---

    4) tanking in a raid you are unlikely to get far as most raid groups or guilds want a tank who knows the ropes. Learning fights from guides and videos will help you break this stereotype.

    5) As to a comparison, not really into paladin as I've never played it but the justicar is a good tank for adds and ranged tanking
    1) Thank you!

    2) In WoW, my low dps was offset by my ability to pull entire zones and grind them down once I was leveled and geared properly. Will that hold true here as well? Being able to grind down enough mobs that I can't even see my toon is a lot of fun.

    3) How well do dungeons prepare you for raiding? In WoW, the dungeons in TBC did a very good job of raid-preparedness; that devolved rapidly in WotLK, further in Cata, and disappeared entirely in MoP.

    4) I wouldn't have it any other way. I never ask to be carried. I always believe in preparedness as much as is possible. As long as resources are available, I WILL be prepared. I take tanking responsibility as serious as one can be in a game setting. As a MT, I enjoy the responsibility of the entire raid's success riding on my ability to survive and control the encounter.

    5) Tanking in chain just seems to be alien. I never feral or monk tanked: 99% Prot Paladin, and a few incidents on my DK. I'm curious, to those who have played both, what does each bring to the table that is absent from the other?

    I will say that I am enjoying myself immensely.

  8. #8
    Soulwalker
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    From my limited understanding of the various rift tanks, I believe these are the key aspects that separate the tanks from one another. (Someone feel free to correct me)

    Paladin : Has the best physical mitagation, bursty emergency heal for st and raid, decent dps? (in comparasion to other tanks)

    Void Knight: Seems to have more dps potential then Paladin, but less survivability. I tend to see people run VK when they outgear the content and want to go though it faster.

    Justicar: Only tank with a battle res, has good ranged agro pulling spells, good uat keeping agro on multiple enemies.

    Riftstalker(rouge tank): Has a fair amount of self shielding abilities, some that go on a fairly long cooldown, can blink around the fights with various abilities, has the largest health pool(might have changed with 2.7 update?)

    Arbiter(Mage tank): has some (Though not as much) self shielding like the rift stalker. Has 6 agro managing abilities, a pull, a taunt, a group version of both of those, and two threat interception abilities.

    I think that's the key differences between the tanks on paper, though I don't know enough about Reaver to tell you anything about it, sorry

  9. #9
    Prophet of Telara
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    Keep in mind that with this latest Patch series (2.7) launched last week, Justicar - and especially it's threat mechanics - has been changed. It's playstyle is still different to the other tank souls (which all play differently from one another anyway because that's the point) but its threat is no longer based on overhealing. This means adds that spawn at range now require active agg management, unlike before! Can't just spam DoL to win

    For solo farming on the Warrior, well if you hybrid paladin with warlord I suppose you can roll that way in tank gear and still perform alright - though you're better off just making a proper soloing spec with DPS gear. Paladin DPS is low so a pure Paladin build will be painfully slow especially in tank gear - probably to the point where your heals run out before you've killed everything, particularly because its AoE is weak. Warrior forum has more info there.
    I will not delete my characters for an unwated server merge.

  10. #10
    Prophet of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feanorion View Post
    I thought about the Warrior forum, but I also wanted comparative analysis on Paladin vs Justicar tanking.

    Thank you for the response, and I appreciate the welcome. I did not know that Warriors could provide ranged dps. Interesting! I always thought that WoW missed the boat on an Archer (non-pet class) as well as a Bard.
    Mage tank and rogue tank are much more fun.

  11. #11
    Prophet of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knonme View Post
    From my limited understanding of the various rift tanks, I believe these are the key aspects that separate the tanks from one another. (Someone feel free to correct me)

    Paladin : Has the best physical mitagation, bursty emergency heal for st and raid, decent dps? (in comparasion to other tanks)

    Void Knight: Seems to have more dps potential then Paladin, but less survivability. I tend to see people run VK when they outgear the content and want to go though it faster.

    Justicar: Only tank with a battle res, has good ranged agro pulling spells, good uat keeping agro on multiple enemies.

    Riftstalker(rouge tank): Has a fair amount of self shielding abilities, some that go on a fairly long cooldown, can blink around the fights with various abilities, has the largest health pool(might have changed with 2.7 update?)

    Arbiter(Mage tank): has some (Though not as much) self shielding like the rift stalker. Has 6 agro managing abilities, a pull, a taunt, a group version of both of those, and two threat interception abilities.

    I think that's the key differences between the tanks on paper, though I don't know enough about Reaver to tell you anything about it, sorry
    Arbiter is REALLY fast

  12. #12
    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feanorion View Post
    Is the current tanking paradigm an EH focus?
    Yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Feanorion View Post
    How do tanking mechanics differ from WoW now?
    Uh... let's see.

    Tanks are not immune to crits. Instead, once you get to level 50 or so, you'll start seeing a stat on certain pieces of tank gear (shoulders/chest/legs/boots) called Toughness that reduces the bonus damage dealt by crits. You'll need progressively higher amounts of toughness for higher tiers of content, since the bosses get increasingly large crit multipliers. The exact requirements for each tier are noted on the tooltip for Toughness on your character sheet when you mouse over it.

    IIRC, you can dodge and parry attacks from behind, but cannot block. I'm not actually 100% certain of that because it almost never comes up and avoidance/block is terrible anyways.

    The hit table uses a 2-roll system. It rolls for avoidance, then if it hits, it rolls to see if you blocked. Thus, CTC is impossible.

    Mitigation stacks somewhat differently than it does in WoW. There are three basic types of mitigation: passive mitigation, buff-based mitigation, and debuff-based mitigation. Each category is additive with itself and multiplicative with the others. And armor/resist is multiplicative with everything.

    The "passive" category is any effect that's not a buff or a debuff. Boosted Defenses is a good example.

    "Buff-based" is just what it sounds like-- any %-based mitigation effect that's the result of a buff on you, such as Phantom Blow.

    Finally, there's debuff-based effects, which is anything that decreases the target's damage done. There actually aren't any of these that I can think of in the tank souls themselves, but Archon has one: Power Drain.

    Also, all armor/resistance multipliers are additive. So if you have 1000 base armor, a talent that gives 30% armor, and another talent that gives 10% armor, your final armor value would be 1400 (1000 * (1 + .3 + .1)).
    Quote Originally Posted by Feanorion View Post
    2) In WoW, my low dps was offset by my ability to pull entire zones and grind them down once I was leveled and geared properly. Will that hold true here as well? Being able to grind down enough mobs that I can't even see my toon is a lot of fun.

    3) How well do dungeons prepare you for raiding? In WoW, the dungeons in TBC did a very good job of raid-preparedness; that devolved rapidly in WotLK, further in Cata, and disappeared entirely in MoP.

    4) I wouldn't have it any other way. I never ask to be carried. I always believe in preparedness as much as is possible. As long as resources are available, I WILL be prepared. I take tanking responsibility as serious as one can be in a game setting. As a MT, I enjoy the responsibility of the entire raid's success riding on my ability to survive and control the encounter.

    5) Tanking in chain just seems to be alien. I never feral or monk tanked: 99% Prot Paladin, and a few incidents on my DK. I'm curious, to those who have played both, what does each bring to the table that is absent from the other?

    I will say that I am enjoying myself immensely.
    2) In WoW, tanks still do decent DPS in comparison to actual DPS specs, thanks in part to Vengeance and Riposte. In Rift... not so much. The exact ratio will vary depending on which specs you're comparing, but it's significantly below 50%, and sometimes goes lower than 20%. I strongly recommend against questing and soloing in a tank spec because of how horrifically slow it will be.

    3) They do a decent job. Expert dungeons are a lot less faceroll than WoW's heroics, although they're easier than TBC's heroics. Rift has 10-man raid instances (that are easier and different from the 20-mans) that help to bridge the gap between dungeons and 20-man raids.

    4) Well, in Rift, you will also be expected to DPS. Every single raiding guild will have one tank of each class (although most guilds won't have a well-geared mage tank yet since the soul and gear was just released last week). But most encounters only require two tanks. So what happens is that whichever two callings are best-suited for a given fight will end up tanking, while the rest go DPS (or possibly heals/support).

    A good mindset for this is that you're not playing a paladin, you're playing a warrior. You will be expected be to able and willing to play most, if not all of the warrior souls. The same goes for the other callings.

    5) Each tank has a bit of a niche.

    Reaver (warrior): Can place down ranged AoE ground target effects called Corruptions that deal damage (much like DK's Death and Decay from WoW). Has the highest spell EH in the game, which is not particularly relevant most of the time. It's sort of a solution in search of a problem, and is going to be revamped into a DPS soul in the future.

    Void Knight (warrior): Sort of an anti-caster theme. Has purges, cleanses, and the ability to summon (teleport) distant enemies to it. Unfortunately, Void Knight only has one major cooldown and is lacking in effective health, which will be remedied around the time of the Reaver changes.

    Paladin (warrior): In my opinion, the blandest of the tanking classes. It has a powerful raid cooldown, Life's Rapture, and the highest physical EH in the game. For the record, it has basically nothing in common with WoW's paladin in terms of playstyle. Justicar is arguably a BIT closer, but you're not really going to find anything similar in Rift.

    Riftstalker (rogue): Has unparalleled mobility, the highest non-physical EH in the game, and the second-highest physical and spell EH. Has the best cooldowns in the game (although Arbiter is a very close second). Has no ranged attacks (aside from the incredibly weak Quick Shot that you get from Ranger), which means that you have to use that mobility to pick up mobs by going to them.

    Justicar (cleric): Has various ways to do minor AoE heals, which generate aggro. It used to generate aggro from overhealing as well, but does not anymore. Has a battle rez, which is something that's normally exclusive to healers. Also has some ranged attacks.

    Arbiter (mage): Has ranged attacks, strong cooldowns, decent mobility, and a couple of pulls. Also has a threat redirect, which is of questionable usefulness, as threat is pretty easy to begin with.


    EDIT: Oh, god. I just noticed your name. Welcome to Rift, Fean.
    Last edited by Muspel; 05-15-2014 at 04:01 PM.

  13. #13
    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feanorion View Post
    What important differences are there between tanking for each game?
    Rift does not have active mitigation to any significant degree (and most tanking specs do not have it at all, although Arbiter comes the closest). Tanking skill is largely determined by your ability to manage cooldowns.

    Quote Originally Posted by Feanorion View Post
    What are the encounters like? High movement? High tank damage? High raid damage?
    Depends on the encounter. There's some of each.

    I'd recommend going to Youtube and watching some kill videos for the following bosses to get a feel for things: Salvarola, Regulos, and Volan.

  14. #14
    Plane Touched
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muspel View Post
    Yes.

    A good mindset for this is that you're not playing a paladin, you're playing a warrior. You will be expected be to able and willing to play most, if not all of the warrior souls. The same goes for the other callings.

    THIS. This concept is the biggest difference between Rift and every other MMO. Rift allows you to quickly change between multiple roles at the push of a button. Therefore, in an endgame setting every guild will require you to do multiple roles. In any given encounter you will change specs multiple times.

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  15. #15
    Plane Touched
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    I posted this earlier:

    http://forums.riftgame.com/game-disc...ml#post4718365

    Should give you a good idea of how WOW and Rift differ.

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