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Thread: Sabotuer vs Assassin the break down

  1. #1
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    Default Sabotuer vs Assassin the break down

    http://img26.imageshack.us/i/critballs.jpg/

    people complain and i see why BUT sabs DPS is not way off the charts. it is actualy equal to other rogue classes . I myself am a sab with another role as a assassin. This beta i did some testing to find the actual damage diffrence on the 2 classes

    that picture shows a sab with the double damage buff in a warfront.

    Beta 4 i could hit that hard without buff but not in beta 5

    beta 5 you cant one shot anyone the same level as you unless its a mage and you get a really lucky crit along with the mage having really low hp

    now im not defending sabs at all (yes i am one and yes our damage is still very large) compared to most classes) but myself being probably the most geared sab on my server (in mostly lvl 30 purples with 3 blues) unless i was in a warfront with double damage i couldnt kill a cleric

    clerics can beat us no problem in any spec.

    Now getting to the DPS part of this discussion

    Sab is very high damage, there is a reason for this. we hit for 750-1600 on blast charges and 300-350ish on detonate thats including current high crits (im talking without double damage) we 5 stack somone with charges and maybe get one auto attack in 200-450 damage from my auto attacks but we will only talk skill damage here

    i will do this with assassin and sab classes using my average crit damage (i play both quite regularly)
    Sab:

    5 charges = 0 damage
    detonate = 350
    Blast charge 1600

    Total 1950 in a single attack which takes around 7 seconds to pull off (i have also had a 5 stack blast charge hit for 214 at lvl 30)

    Assassin:
    5 charges = 1250 damage @ around a 250 per crit per charge
    final blow 750

    Total : 1950 over 7 seconds ( also remember assassin is also auto attacking alot + poisons durring this time which improves thier damage over the sab but i did this with skills only)

    Damage is the same between these classes. the problem is sab does thiers in a single blow rather than in short bursts

    With the assassin after that 1950 youll be getting hit again
    with sab you have 7 seconds to use a potion or heal before the next burst damage hit comes in

    i do think melee should be buffed to have more damage than sabs do (or another nerf to us sabs) because they have to get in close to the action where as sabs stay out of the fight at a very nice range.

    All of my tests were done against a level 30 cleric also in very good gear using tons of diffrent specs

    as Sab i won maybe 2-5 duels with well timed stuns

    as assassin i won 4-5 duels

    what is OP about the sab class is not the sab itself it is the double damage buff that is in warfronts

    I was able to pull over 100,000 damage in a single codex i had double damage on 90% of the time

    the next codex i did the same thing and used my assassin spec and pulled 97,000 damage.

    Sab = damage in an isntant thats what people complain about
    Last edited by Astrex; 01-29-2011 at 08:23 PM.

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    Rift Disciple Wurkt's Avatar
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    The double damage in warfonts is just too ridiculous. it should be removed and replace by other buffs that are still good, and maybe more locations to pick up the buffs.

    +25% damage
    +50% healing received
    auto attacks slow
    1 minute hot

    all these would be more fun, and still worth getting.

    I think that a WF based on a double damage buff could be fun and then it would still exist somewhere in the game. Something with a similar setting as black garden, points earned are based on kills by the double damage holder. each team would fight over grabbing the buff.

    sabs are not op. just the way they do damage is hard to deal with. one thing that would make them more balanced is just a very noticeable graphic when a player has blast charges on them. that person would be able to tell easier they might be getting blown up and so would healers.

    1900 damage over 7 seconds is not that outrageous. i played with astrex and in my pvp champion/reaver/riftblade set up, with equivalent gear, i could pull that off.

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    Shadowlander Siro's Avatar
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    From what i have seen sabs are really under played. I also agree with the above post people just havent learned to deal with certain types of damage yet in this game. Everything is situational and people need to get used to the different play style in this game. This game is pretty fast paced and as far as healing goes its a bit different then most. I dont think healers wanna be healers yet a lot of people ive seen are still stuck on trying to be a battle cleric.

    It will all fix itself in time.

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    That 1 screen again. :>> Aye, you just spawn, target 1 person, press 1 1 1 1 1 2 and then boom - 3k+ damage? Sorry, no.

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    1950 damage over 7 seconds can be healed through 1950 damage in 1 shot cannot.I fully expect sabs to be nerfed in be shocked if it werent.
    Last edited by jaym7018; 01-29-2011 at 08:53 PM.

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    Its true that the class has some insane burst potential.

    But because of the nature of their mechanic Trion will need to be careful with adjusting the damage values. Simply because too much will gut the soul and it will be unusable....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Desidus View Post
    Its true that the class has some insane burst potential.

    But because of the nature of their mechanic Trion will need to be careful with adjusting the damage values. Simply because too much will gut the soul and it will be unusable....
    i agree. Thats why i think we will se a cabalist esque overhaul to be honest. No way the Sab can go to live in its current form.
    Last edited by jaym7018; 01-29-2011 at 08:58 PM.

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    Rift Disciple entropyboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deviltry View Post
    That 1 screen again. :>> Aye, you just spawn, target 1 person, press 1 1 1 1 1 2 and then boom - 3k+ damage? Sorry, no.
    you are missing the point.

    OP is saying (and i agree) that while Saboteurs are all back-end damage, other classes are doing the same amount over the course.

    so for your example it would be, press 1 (300) 1 (300) 1 (300) 1 (300) 1 (300) 2 (1500) and have 3K+ damage.
    red is damage from each button press, we will assume 1s are a combo builder and 2 is the finisher. numbers are example to add up to your stated 3000 damage.

    so i don't see how constantly doing damage for 7sec up to 3000 and doing no damage for 7sec and then 3000, is any worse?

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    Quote Originally Posted by entropyboy View Post
    you are missing the point.

    OP is saying (and i agree) that while Saboteurs are all back-end damage, other classes are doing the same amount over the course.

    so for your example it would be, press 1 (300) 1 (300) 1 (300) 1 (300) 1 (300) 2 (1500) and have 3K+ damage.
    red is damage from each button press, we will assume 1s are a combo builder and 2 is the finisher. numbers are example to add up to your stated 3000 damage.

    so i don't see how constantly doing damage for 7sec up to 3000 and doing no damage for 7sec and then 3000, is any worse?
    because 1 can be healed through and 1 cannot. how do you not understand that?

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    Rift Disciple Wurkt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaym7018 View Post
    1950 damage over 7 seconds can be healed through 1950 damage in 1 shot cannot.I fully expect sabs to be nerfed in be shocked if it werent.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wurkt View Post
    sabs are not op. just the way they do damage is hard to deal with. one thing that would make them more balanced is just a very noticeable graphic when a player has blast charges on them. that person would be able to tell easier they might be getting blown up and so would healers.
    if healers can more easily identify who is running around with blast charges, then they can shield. they don't have to heal 1900 damage when a shield can absorb some of that.

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    Apparently people have forgotten about the skill "weapon barrage" on the bladedancer tree. It not only interrupts spell casting, but it silences them for 5 seconds so that they can't cast any spells. That compliments the assassin damage very nicely. I threw in the riftstalker role with these two and put 5 points into unseen fury for the 15% increase in attack damage. By the end of beta 5 at lvl 27 I was putting out some very, very respectable damage.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wurkt View Post
    if healers can more easily identify who is running around with blast charges, then they can shield. they don't have to heal 1900 damage when a shield can absorb some of that.
    You say that like they cant shield from the assassin damage as well. Shields is not a valid reason to leave sabs where they are. Not even close.

  13. #13
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    remember that sab is range, sin is not

    sab can kill some1 while kiting them and taking minimal dmg, sin has to put themselves in the enemy's lines

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    Any balance issue this game has right now is not even remotely as problematic as what sabs are doing. All these build up and release at once abilities are much to powerful like the void knights discharge.
    Last edited by jaym7018; 01-29-2011 at 09:10 PM.

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    I agree, as i said in my original post. we are currently "on par" with the assassin DPS (single target only)

    but to nerf us would be unviable due to the fact that an assassin is on par with most other classes.. its just based on how we do the damage.. not the amount of damage that is done

    When im in a warfront i can not one shot people unless i have the double damage buff... that buff is what needs to be changed

    100% is far to much

    if a pyromancer has the buff they are hitting for 850 every 1.5 seconds

    7 seconds/1.5 seconds = 4.66

    850 * 4.66 = 3961 damage over 7 seconds with buff
    3961/2= 1980.5 without buff

    thats still on par with assassin and sab thats 3 of the top DPS classes in the game as far as i know/have seen all equal within 50 points of damage on all crit attacks over 7 seconds
    Last edited by Astrex; 01-29-2011 at 09:18 PM.

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