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Thread: Is there any viable spec that makes use of 3 souls?

  1. #1
    Shadowlander
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    Default Is there any viable spec that makes use of 3 souls?

    Dat topic tho

  2. #2
    Soulwalker BuLaDiFu's Avatar
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    I'm just as new as you so you might not agree with what I'm saying, but...

    Aren't all the guides given out there sorta like 61 x / 10 y / 5 z, with x, y and z being a variable soul? So technically speaking, all specs makes use of 3 souls...

    Okay okay, I was just kidding.

    Now for the honest opinion part.

    Afaik, we've only got 76 points to allocate and if we were to have a spec which makes use of all 3 souls, then roughly each spec would only get some "love" of about 25 soul points, give or take.

    With only that many soul points spent on each tree, you are barely climbing up 50% of a soul tree. And that translates to your character being restricted to having many low level skills but none of the "powerful" ones that define any particular soul.

    And like the saying goes, jack of all, master of none.

    So...you get the idea.

  3. #3
    Champion R0NlN's Avatar
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    What do you mean by "makes use of"?

    If you mean "spends some points in", like any points at all, then yes, there are.

    Seems the topic title isn't always enough. In a Discussion form. Imagine dat.
    Last edited by R0NlN; 04-13-2014 at 03:33 PM.

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    Prophet of Telara Fiskerton's Avatar
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    I'd think he's talking about a spec like 26/25/25. The problem with this is that critical abilities are usually at higher points (like 41, 48, 51, 61) and not getting them not only gimps your dps a lot but changes the playstyle.
    Last edited by Fiskerton; 04-13-2014 at 03:43 PM.
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    I can't think of any viable spec that really makes use of 3 different souls, in the sense of integrating 3 different playstyles.

    Like mages have 61 harb/8chloro/7ele. We get points in chloro and ele because both have a valuable skill low in the tree that ends up contributing to around 10% of the total damage in a parse. They are irreplaceable souls in the standard harb build. But I'd consider the playstyle itself just harbinger, not harb/ele/chloro.

    There are a few combinations, especially in PVP and solo play, that very effectively mix 2 different plastyles. But if you try to mix 3 you'll have trouble for the same reasons others said. At 25 points into a soul tree there's rarely a playstyle, just a few useful skills. I think almost every attempt at integrating 3 souls would just end up a random ability masher with no actual cohesion.

  6. #6
    Fik
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    Split evenly across all three with a little margin? I doubt it. Most the time I see a variety of the 3 with only 11 or so each the other two.

    They killed this type of hybrid a while ago.
    Last edited by Fik; 04-17-2014 at 06:23 AM.

  7. #7
    Champion of Telara Nightbringer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fik View Post
    Split evenly across all three with a little margin? I doubt it. Most the time I see a variety of the 3 with only 11 or so each the other two.

    They killed this type of hybrid a while ago.
    Balancing builds using multiple souls was too difficult. They killed the idea by making a 61 point investment in a primary soul mandatory for nearly all optimal builds.
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    Prophet of Telara
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    You won't find Hybrids in Rift anymore. the Soul system is not unique. It's been dumbed down to 61/x/x or nothing builds.

    Make time machine go back to 2010, play rift pre sl when the game was actually good as far as customized builds went. MMOs these days are dead. You wont be able to find a MMO that allows viable hybrid builds.

    Cookie-cutter or nothing. Sorry situational hybrid pve builds don't count in Rift, they are only useful in very certain situations.
    Last edited by DriftinARift; 04-18-2014 at 09:51 PM.

  9. #9
    Soulwalker Farodsha's Avatar
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    Default 5-man support.

    Well, thinking about it, a 5 man support build for mages could make use of 3 souls. I know that in 5 man dungeons when queuing as support you are expected to dps. But if your group is severely under geared, and they are begging for real support. You could spend just enough points in pyro for pyromancer's armor. (Like 36 or something). Few points in chloro for backup LGV healing. And then a few points in archon for various buffs/whatever. Again, I would never use this spec but seems like a build that would use the three souls. It's not a perfect tribrid. But I can't think of a single occasion a tribrid would be useful.
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    Hybrid builds exist, but probably not with 3 souls. Reaver/void knight and warlord/paragon are a couple that function very well without using the 61 point abilities. I would certainly like if there were more variety in optimal setups, but unless the soul tree abilities get changed around to provide better damage output at lower tier skills I doubt it will happen.

    As a side note, I highly suggest that the person/people that think a 5 man support is -less- dps than running pure dps need to use a better parser (ACT) to properly redirect damage from buffs/abilities.

  11. #11
    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CdrRogdan View Post
    Hybrid builds exist, but probably not with 3 souls. Reaver/void knight and warlord/paragon are a couple that function very well without using the 61 point abilities. I would certainly like if there were more variety in optimal setups, but unless the soul tree abilities get changed around to provide better damage output at lower tier skills I doubt it will happen.

    As a side note, I highly suggest that the person/people that think a 5 man support is -less- dps than running pure dps need to use a better parser (ACT) to properly redirect damage from buffs/abilities.
    It is significantly less DPS. The math has been done.

    The only potential exception to this rule is when there's a significant gear gap between players-- IE if you have a support in blues/greens and 2 DPS in T2 raid gear, then having a support can be worthwhile because his own DPS in a pure DPS spec would not be an equal proportion of the group's output, and it's more worthwhile to amplify the damage of the group's stronger members.

    But that's the exception, rather than the rule.

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    Please point me out to this math, because running ACT shows otherwise.

  13. #13
    Shadowlander MAERDIS's Avatar
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    Right, it's a little unclear.

    If you're talking the 25/25/26, or whatever, then like said above I highly doubt it would be very effective.

    There are plenty of specs that *do* make use of the 3 souls. I know people put Dom in Pyrochon, and put no points in it. It still makes use of both Archon and Pyro for the buffs + dps potential, and dom is there for the instacast when moving + transmogrify.. Same applies for the 61 harb stated above. That's two quick examples of making use of all the 3 souls - even with no points. That's just 61 + the other points thrown somewhere dandy or an extra soul with 0 point benefits to make the role itself *better*.

    If you're talking complete hybrid, I'm aware of one spec... harb/chloro/chon. I tried it out myself and disliked it immensely since it's practically a very half-assed Harbchon with all the useful points thrown in Chloro to aid your healer.
    Last edited by MAERDIS; 04-22-2014 at 06:53 PM.
    Back from the dead, unfortunately.

  14. #14
    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CdrRogdan View Post
    Please point me out to this math, because running ACT shows otherwise.
    In a dungeon, a DPS will do 15-20k ST DPS unbuffed if they have raid gear.

    A bard will do around 60% of that (and that's being pretty generous, it'll more likely be even lower). So in order to make up for that DPS loss, he'd need to increase the damage of the other two DPS by 20% each, and he can't do that. Especially since expert dungeon boss fights are so short, meaning that you spend about a quarter of the fight applying initial debuffs.
    Last edited by Muspel; 04-22-2014 at 07:01 PM.

  15. #15
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    That's some super awesome 'math' you have there... but there are two problems with your post. First, bard is not the only support, and happens to be the lowest single target damage dealer out of the three. Second bard had it's damage improved significantly in the most recent patch, and the '60%' damage is no longer the case.

    The reality is a parse with an archon or beastmaster nets a 5% or 10% loss in damage depending on your level and the abilities available to you. My most recent parse paragon vs beastmaster was 10k vs 9.5k (not using call of command). However that loss to damage is negligable when you consider your party gains 10% from various buffs. In addition, in that most recent parse 450 damage came from spotters call. This is incredibly important, and why our current parsers are dimwitted. Assuming at least 3 other players are doing damage, that's an additional 1350 damage that is incorrectly attributed to other party members.

    But maybe you are just a way better player than I am, and I sure hope that's the case, because you have to output over 30% more damage than either of the other dps because you chose to go dps instead of support.
    Last edited by CdrRogdan; 04-22-2014 at 07:31 PM.

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