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Thread: ROGUE RANGED SPECS WAY TOO NERFED (developers please read this)

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    Soulwalker
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    Default ROGUE RANGED SPECS WAY TOO NERFED (developers please read this)

    I find that the ranged specs for the rogue are nerfed too much. Especially the marksman spec. Even the planar attunement favors melee weapon mastery a lot more than ranged weapon mastery. I really hope this will be changed since some fights require ranged attacks and also have a minimum amount of overall dps that has to be reached. Rogues shouldn't be limited to assassin specs to pull high dps.

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    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lillyblossom View Post
    Even the planar attunement favors melee weapon mastery a lot more than ranged weapon mastery.
    I don't think you know how those planar attunement bonuses work. They boost your AP as long as you have a weapon of that type equipped, even if you're not using it for attacks.

    So, for instance, if you put 8 points in the Sword AP hexes, and you're wielding two swords, your ranged attacks also benefit from the 16 extra AP.
    Last edited by Muspel; 03-31-2014 at 09:25 PM.

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    Shadowlander Tehmafrath's Avatar
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    Learn to play Marksman, lol.

    I don't mean that to be offensive, so hear me out. I run DPS constantly, and build wise, I have two builds.

    My primary build is, you guessed it, assassin. Why? Because I really enjoy sneaking around the target and blasting it for high amounts of melee damage. Doing so, generally puts me at higher risk. So, you have high DPS, high risk of death, and not a lot of ways to postpone that.

    Then we have my second build. Marksman. Why? Because sometimes, being in a bosses face, or being in melee range, just won't work unless you are a tank. The *slight* DPS drop I get is WELL WORTH the fact that i'm not in a dangerous position while doing so. I also have quite a few ways to get even further away from danger, very quickly. There is more technicality to the build, giving me good stuns and a damn good interrupt. All from a safe distance.

    So, you have a build that is dangerous, and you are rewarded with higher DPS because of it. Then you have a build that's safe from harm, with slightly less DPS.

    Tell me again why they should fix Marksman? I mean, yeah, ok, you wanna DPS at range and have a role that more *suits* you. But are they supposed to cater to your wishes, while breaking the game for everyone else? Who's gonna run melee DPS if you have a ranged class doing the same or better? Run some PvP sometime and tell me they need to make MM better. You might be squishy, but if you are doing it right, you won't ever need to worry about being hit. If the DPS were any higher, I could break most PvP matches in half. As it stands I still do a bulk of the damage on my team, and get tons of kills, and not just by picking on low health players, but by playing my advantage correctly.

    I'm getting really tired of seeing this question popping up, and I wish Trion would just come out and say that ranged DPS should NOT be higher than melee DPS, because of OBVIOUS REASONS. They fixed it for those same reasons.
    Nikodemos@laethys - Lvl 65 Rogue Enthusiast

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    Sword of Telara Redhead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lillyblossom View Post
    I find that the ranged specs for the rogue are nerfed too much. Especially the marksman spec. Even the planar attunement favors melee weapon mastery a lot more than ranged weapon mastery. I really hope this will be changed since some fights require ranged attacks and also have a minimum amount of overall dps that has to be reached. Rogues shouldn't be limited to assassin specs to pull high dps.
    Ranger is Perfectly fine. Marksman sucks compared to any spec you could name.
    A leader is best when people barely know he exists, when his work is done, his aim fulfilled, they will say: we did it ourselves. -Lao Tzu

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    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tehmafrath View Post
    Then we have my second build. Marksman. Why? Because sometimes, being in a bosses face, or being in melee range, just won't work unless you are a tank. The *slight* DPS drop I get is WELL WORTH the fact that i'm not in a dangerous position while doing so.
    It's a hell of a lot more than "slight". Marksman's DPS is over 20% behind assassin.

  6. #6
    Sword of Telara Redhead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tehmafrath View Post
    Learn to play Marksman, lol.

    I don't mean that to be offensive, so hear me out. I run DPS constantly, and build wise, I have two builds.

    My primary build is, you guessed it, assassin. Why? Because I really enjoy sneaking around the target and blasting it for high amounts of melee damage. Doing so, generally puts me at higher risk. So, you have high DPS, high risk of death, and not a lot of ways to postpone that.

    Then we have my second build. Marksman. Why? Because sometimes, being in a bosses face, or being in melee range, just won't work unless you are a tank. The *slight* DPS drop I get is WELL WORTH the fact that i'm not in a dangerous position while doing so. I also have quite a few ways to get even further away from danger, very quickly. There is more technicality to the build, giving me good stuns and a damn good interrupt. All from a safe distance.

    So, you have a build that is dangerous, and you are rewarded with higher DPS because of it. Then you have a build that's safe from harm, with slightly less DPS.

    Tell me again why they should fix Marksman? I mean, yeah, ok, you wanna DPS at range and have a role that more *suits* you. But are they supposed to cater to your wishes, while breaking the game for everyone else? Who's gonna run melee DPS if you have a ranged class doing the same or better? Run some PvP sometime and tell me they need to make MM better. You might be squishy, but if you are doing it right, you won't ever need to worry about being hit. If the DPS were any higher, I could break most PvP matches in half. As it stands I still do a bulk of the damage on my team, and get tons of kills, and not just by picking on low health players, but by playing my advantage correctly.

    I'm getting really tired of seeing this question popping up, and I wish Trion would just come out and say that ranged DPS should NOT be higher than melee DPS, because of OBVIOUS REASONS. They fixed it for those same reasons.
    I have played marksman on 4 level 60's Into raids and wf's. I do 2 times as much DPS as ranger. MM's dps is dramatically low compared to almost every ranged spec in the game.
    why? 1 reason is too many cast time/channeled attack I,E Strafe/Crossfire/chain destruction/sentry battery/ empowered shot. Honestly I can pull a reasonable DPS as MM but it is not as good as it should be. MM's Utility is better than it's damaging capabilities.
    Last edited by Redhead; 04-01-2014 at 11:51 AM.
    A leader is best when people barely know he exists, when his work is done, his aim fulfilled, they will say: we did it ourselves. -Lao Tzu

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    Dont worry, in the Rogue section one of the Devs said that he'll work on making ranged rogue dps specs more consistent, but it will take some time as they are bussy with balancing upcoming new souls.

    Afaik MM Decoy might get reworked in to more consistent dps ability so you wont have to worry about it dying or agroing random mobs in dungeon.

    Ranger will probably get some rework for pets. Im not sure what exactly it will be, but pets might lose some dps and get auraus or buffs for the raid / ranger. There's also a chance for a buff which ruduces energy costs which will help while soloing when you dont have raid buffs.
    PvP in RIFT is good only @forum.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tehmafrath View Post
    Then we have my second build. Marksman. Why? Because sometimes, being in a bosses face, or being in melee range, just won't work unless you are a tank. The *slight* DPS drop I get is WELL WORTH the fact that i'm not in a dangerous position while doing so. I also have quite a few ways to get even further away from danger, very quickly. There is more technicality to the build, giving me good stuns and a damn good interrupt. All from a safe distance.
    If by "slight" you mean a boat load, then yes, MM is just a slight DPS drop from Sin.

    I'm not sure what MM build you are running, but I would be interested in learn how you are stunning targets.

    Maybe the OP was tring to make the point that the Rogue ranged classes are behind other callings' ranged classes. I think Muspel said he sees a 20% dps drop between Sin and MM. That may be a conservative estimate. I was thinking it would be in the area of 30+% DPS loss. I do not know the DPS difference between Para & Temp, for example, but I would be surprised that it is >30%.

    Well, what about Ranger? My experience is that it is about 20% DPS drop from Sin. Talking with some warriors, they seem to suggest to mean that the Para-Temp difference it something like 10%.

    So why not boost ranger and MM ~10%? They will still be behind Sin, but may be more more inline with other callings' ranged specs.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harrodon View Post
    If by "slight" you mean a boat load, then yes, MM is just a slight DPS drop from Sin.

    I'm not sure what MM build you are running, but I would be interested in learn how you are stunning targets.

    Maybe the OP was tring to make the point that the Rogue ranged classes are behind other callings' ranged classes. I think Muspel said he sees a 20% dps drop between Sin and MM. That may be a conservative estimate. I was thinking it would be in the area of 30+% DPS loss. I do not know the DPS difference between Para & Temp, for example, but I would be surprised that it is >30%.

    Well, what about Ranger? My experience is that it is about 20% DPS drop from Sin. Talking with some warriors, they seem to suggest to mean that the Para-Temp difference it something like 10%.

    So why not boost ranger and MM ~10%? They will still be behind Sin, but may be more more inline with other callings' ranged specs.
    This guy knows what hes talking about. Gorloch, for example is about 26k st in MM, assassin is 35k easy, if you do things right 40k + st. That is a pretty big slight difference.

    Ranger isn't that much above MM, and if there is a fight that requires target switching, PB Eggs achievement for ex. MM will pull ahead.

    Comparatively, a good Tempest can out parse a Paragon, due to the high burst CD, which is fine IMO.

    A very good warlock can pull some great numbers as well. the rest of the ranged Mage souls except for Dominator and chloro need some love, they are mostly useless.

    I don't know anything about clerics except to say that some of the clerics I roll with are able to beat me in dps, which is cool. I dont see or hear too many clerics looking to change their dps souls dramatically right now.

    It would be nice to see a bump in burst dps to bring the ranged soul back for some instances. Just bump fan out to be like 100 blades and mm will become the go to spec for some.

  10. #10
    Soulwalker
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    Default Marksman low dps

    I know my specs very well, this is why I made this post. The markman spec dps is lower than any other class with their ranged specs. tehmafrath, it is not about a role that more suits me, I am not the only one that thinks marksman dps is low compared to others. I have no problem with the assassin spec, the dps there is great. The ranged equivalent is very nerfed. You say that ranged dps should not be higher then melee and yet the rogue is the only one that has the lowest dps in ranged specs. Yes even the warrior ranged spec has higher dps than the marksman, now explain that? Honestly, there are way too many ignorants on here.

  11. #11
    Rift Disciple
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    [QUOTE=Lillyblossom;4756390Honestly, there are way too many ignorants on here.[/QUOTE]

    Wow! Not very considerate, are we?

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    Rift Master Nasacrim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redhead View Post
    Ranger is Perfectly fine. Marksman sucks compared to any spec you could name.
    Ranger is around 5% more than MM in a pure ST burn with no switches. Not perfectly fine. Those are the lowest ranged dps souls of the game. Both.
    Last edited by Nasacrim; 04-03-2014 at 01:18 AM.

  13. #13
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    Yea MM should be returned to its old 1.5 glory, top ST and AoE (with fan out spam) all rolled into 1, with just 2 buttons necessary to play it at 98% capacity at full ST and 1 button macro LF + Fanout to top aoe chart.

    For all you new players that has no idea wtf I am talking about, theres a reason why MM is where it is now. It was literally pointless to play anything but MM in both ST and AoE in all the major contents at the time.

    Changes will come and MM and Ranger will most likely to be buffed. It's just a balancing cycle in MMOs. Tempest was one of the worst ranged spec, hell Sabodancer used to be top ST and also passively AoEs, Saboranger used to own ST dps, SC/Elementalist used to be top ST and AOE... see the point?
    Last edited by WarUltima; 04-03-2014 at 02:01 AM.

  14. #14
    Rift Disciple RealButterfly's Avatar
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    Ranger vs MM:

    MM is more for PvP, less DPS more tools.
    Ranger is more for PvE, more DPS less tools.

    (just a quick sketch, at least that's how it should work imho, unless broken)
    Last edited by RealButterfly; 04-03-2014 at 03:52 AM.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tehmafrath View Post
    Learn to play Marksman, lol.

    I don't mean that to be offensive, so hear me out. I run DPS constantly, and build wise, I have two builds.

    My primary build is, you guessed it, assassin. Why? Because I really enjoy sneaking around the target and blasting it for high amounts of melee damage. Doing so, generally puts me at higher risk. So, you have high DPS, high risk of death, and not a lot of ways to postpone that.

    Then we have my second build. Marksman. Why? Because sometimes, being in a bosses face, or being in melee range, just won't work unless you are a tank. The *slight* DPS drop I get is WELL WORTH the fact that i'm not in a dangerous position while doing so. I also have quite a few ways to get even further away from danger, very quickly. There is more technicality to the build, giving me good stuns and a damn good interrupt. All from a safe distance.

    So, you have a build that is dangerous, and you are rewarded with higher DPS because of it. Then you have a build that's safe from harm, with slightly less DPS.

    Tell me again why they should fix Marksman? I mean, yeah, ok, you wanna DPS at range and have a role that more *suits* you. But are they supposed to cater to your wishes, while breaking the game for everyone else? Who's gonna run melee DPS if you have a ranged class doing the same or better? Run some PvP sometime and tell me they need to make MM better. You might be squishy, but if you are doing it right, you won't ever need to worry about being hit. If the DPS were any higher, I could break most PvP matches in half. As it stands I still do a bulk of the damage on my team, and get tons of kills, and not just by picking on low health players, but by playing my advantage correctly.

    I'm getting really tired of seeing this question popping up, and I wish Trion would just come out and say that ranged DPS should NOT be higher than melee DPS, because of OBVIOUS REASONS. They fixed it for those same reasons.
    High risk of death.

    Most pvp targets are dead and dont' even get to fight back or break your combo. No class should be that out of balance.

    Also keeping melee higher than range destroys any reason why the classes are balanced. Range still has to move, and has to dodge ****. You might need higher burst, but your overall dps should be the same as the rest of us. Then again fights should be as melee friendly as they are range friendly, or you should play the dangerous melee role, because you know. You like the thrill of avoiding death.

    This game is fast turning into Age of Conan.

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