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Thread: Tanking buffs?

  1. #1
    Ascendant
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    Default Tanking buffs?

    Has threat been reduced in other areas of each tree or did the devs somehow decide tanks were not generating enough overall threat?

    The only tanks who lose aggro are the bad ones; there is no need for dps to "wait a few seconds" or any other myths out there spread by bad tanks.

    Why the buff?

  2. #2
    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    Tank threat does not scale at the same rate as DPS output. It's mainly an issue of future-proofing.

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    Honestly, its' an issue by scaling tanking damage up, significantly. Right now it's beyond pathetic.

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    RIFT Guide Writer RoughRaptorsOld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KaosAssendant View Post
    Honestly, its' an issue by scaling tanking damage up, significantly. Right now it's beyond pathetic.
    What do you mean? Why does tank damage need to go up? The problem is that while tank damage remains nearly consistent (most abilities don't scale off of Endurance anymore), DPS is heavily increasing, making it harder and harder to maintain threat, especially during burst rotations of a mob switching fight (ie Abominus). The idea is to give tanks more threat based on their gear level via Endurance so this scaling problem with DPS vs tanks will not be a problem anymore.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RoughRaptors View Post
    What do you mean? Why does tank damage need to go up? The problem is that while tank damage remains nearly consistent (most abilities don't scale off of Endurance anymore), DPS is heavily increasing, making it harder and harder to maintain threat, especially during burst rotations of a mob switching fight (ie Abominus). The idea is to give tanks more threat based on their gear level via Endurance so this scaling problem with DPS vs tanks will not be a problem anymore.
    That's just it. Threat is initially based off of damage, heavily modified by a few other factors, (Or at least to my understanding...), so with tank damage remaining abysmally low, High DPS becomes a huge issue. RR, you can prolly answer me, what's your average ST DPS tanking? somewhere between 4-6k? So, asking for a 50% increase would be a significant QoL improvement, assist with there threat management, with out Trion having to "cheat" the threat system directly. And honestly,

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    Quote Originally Posted by KaosAssendant View Post
    That's just it. Threat is initially based off of damage, heavily modified by a few other factors, (Or at least to my understanding...), so with tank damage remaining abysmally low, High DPS becomes a huge issue. RR, you can prolly answer me, what's your average ST DPS tanking? somewhere between 4-6k? So, asking for a 50% increase would be a significant QoL improvement, assist with there threat management, with out Trion having to "cheat" the threat system directly.,
    Well, increasing tank DPS would be nerfing encounters and I'm not sure if they want to be doing that. There's also a major discrepancy between Warrior/Cleric/Rogue tank DPS. And to answer your question, my ST DPS as a tank is about 8-11k (varies on the fight). A Rogue/Cleric is probably like....3-4k max. Raising Warrior DPS would be a massive problem and raising Cleric/Rogue DPS to Warrior DPS would mess up our niche as well, our niche is DPS. You can't take that away without adding something else. It's much easier to throw on a blanket Endurance scaling modifier on all three tanks that will be 100% equivalent rather than mess with damage abilities (which also scale differently).

  7. #7
    RIFT Guide Writer RoughRaptorsOld's Avatar
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    Also that 8-11k is assuming VK. If I'm running 41/35.... I'm at 20k+ :-P

    I still really want to try Goloch again in 41/35, I want to see if I can break 30k while tanking.
    Last edited by RoughRaptorsOld; 02-24-2014 at 01:40 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RoughRaptors View Post
    Well, increasing tank DPS would be nerfing encounters and I'm not sure if they want to be doing that. There's also a major discrepancy between Warrior/Cleric/Rogue tank DPS. And to answer your question, my ST DPS as a tank is about 8-11k (varies on the fight). A Rogue/Cleric is probably like....3-4k max. Raising Warrior DPS would be a massive problem and raising Cleric/Rogue DPS to Warrior DPS would mess up our niche as well, our niche is DPS. You can't take that away without adding something else. It's much easier to throw on a blanket Endurance scaling modifier on all three tanks that will be 100% equivalent rather than mess with damage abilities (which also scale differently).
    So, from what you just told me... it honestly wouldn't be a problem or a nerf to the encounter if they increased specificly rogue/cleric tank damage by 100-150% and left warriors alone... but also from what you just said, would also indicate warriors in general need a major nerf as well, that kind of discrepancy is something that does need a very close look at.

  9. #9
    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KaosAssendant View Post
    So, from what you just told me... it honestly wouldn't be a problem or a nerf to the encounter if they increased specificly rogue/cleric tank damage by 100-150% and left warriors alone... but also from what you just said, would also indicate warriors in general need a major nerf as well, that kind of discrepancy is something that does need a very close look at.
    At the moment, that discrepancy exists for a reason: it's the warrior tank utility.

    Rogues have better cooldowns and extreme mobility, clerics have Salvation threat and a battle rez, mages have [REDACTED], and warriors have higher DPS.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KaosAssendant View Post
    So, from what you just told me... it honestly wouldn't be a problem or a nerf to the encounter if they increased specificly rogue/cleric tank damage by 100-150% and left warriors alone... but also from what you just said, would also indicate warriors in general need a major nerf as well, that kind of discrepancy is something that does need a very close look at.
    Well, no. I said before that DPS is what a Warrior tank brings to the table, it's our niche. You can't remove that without adding something else. Refer to Muspel's post.

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    Even with what rogues, and clerics "bring to the table" that discrepancy is extreme. If warriors were doing 15%-20% than you would have an argument, not a 200-300% increase, and in RR extreme case almost 1000%. Don't forget about Warrior buffs, I would consider that a huge utility that they bring to the table as well.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by KaosAssendant View Post
    Even with what rogues, and clerics "bring to the table" that discrepancy is extreme.
    Not really, bring a Warrior if you want DPS.

    Bring a Rogue if you want a bit more mobility and a ton of self-mits.

    Bring a Cleric for splash heals and a brez.

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    So, your saying that if your tanks damage got nerfed to the ground, and you were given a brez you'd be fine with it? Gotcha'

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    Quote Originally Posted by KaosAssendant View Post
    So, your saying that if your tanks damage got nerfed to the ground, and you were given a brez you'd be fine with it? Gotcha'
    Yes and no. Yes in the fact that a brez is extremely powerful, no in the fact that there needs to be a distinct difference between the tanking souls such that they can be differentiated and min/maxed properly for every fight.

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    So your saying a warriors vercitility accounts for nothing? Your saying that for example a rogue tank deaking 10-12k would be a nerf in a raid environment.. When you have 15 other players dealing 25k plus? No i dont disagree that each tank style should be unique... But using damage I think is a bad design choice.

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