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Thread: Support roles?

  1. #1
    Soulwalker
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    Default Support roles?

    I didn't see a topic like this, but if i missed it, sry...

    How are the support roles in this game? I absolutely loved Bard in FFXIV, and how being good at support vs average made a noticeable difference for the group. That true at all here?

    Also, for end game, are they in demand for both parties and raids? What are the differences in the support roles between each class? How much time is spent on buffing/supporting vs dps for each class? Or feel free to just toss in any info relevant to support classes here plz.

    Thanks. Any assistance is appreciated.

  2. #2
    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProdigalOne View Post
    I didn't see a topic like this, but if i missed it, sry...

    How are the support roles in this game? I absolutely loved Bard in FFXIV, and how being good at support vs average made a noticeable difference for the group. That true at all here?
    Not particularly. Bards and Archons only really have to juggle buff/debuff maintenance, and these either have very long durations or refresh automatically.

    Quote Originally Posted by ProdigalOne View Post
    Also, for end game, are they in demand for both parties and raids?
    Support is only used in raids. While you can use the specs in 5-man, it's generally not worth doing so, because with so few people to benefit from the buffs, it's a DPS loss compared to just using a DPS spec yourself.

    In raids, though, they're invaluable, and every raid group will run an archon (usually a pyrochon) and a bard. Some groups will use a Beastmaster instead of an archon, but that's very rare at the moment because of some of the issues that Beastmaster faces. (The spec is due to get some changes when Vladd gets around to it.)


    Quote Originally Posted by ProdigalOne View Post
    What are the differences in the support roles between each class?
    They bring different sets of buffs and debuffs. Bard buffs are largely unique, while Archons and Beastmasters overlap, so a raid group will have a Bard and either an Archon or a Beastmaster. In patch 3.0 (which is quite a ways off), Clerics are also getting a support soul: Crusader. This will have buffs that overlap with bards, so it'll be Bard/Crusader and Archon/Beastmaster.

    Quote Originally Posted by ProdigalOne View Post
    How much time is spent on buffing/supporting vs dps for each class?
    Most of your time will be spent DPSing. You'll need to refresh certain buffs or debuffs periodically.

    Functionally, support specs are just extremely powerful DPS specs that you can only have one of in a group. (They don't personally do high DPS, but they buff everyone else's DPS and if you count that...)

  3. #3
    Rift Master
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    Play whichever style makes the game enjoyable for you. Druid justicar is also a fun support role.

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    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guidinglite View Post
    Play whichever style makes the game enjoyable for you. Druid justicar is also a fun support role.
    Druidicar is not a support spec, it's a hybrid DPS/healer that's pretty bad at both.

  5. #5
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    It is a support spec. Don't confine yourself to your little raiding box. People use it all the time in dungeons and world events with good results.

  6. #6
    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guidinglite View Post
    It is a support spec. Don't confine yourself to your little raiding box. People use it all the time in dungeons and world events with good results.
    It does not have any of the support buffs or debuffs, aside from Thorns of Ire. It does bad DPS and weak AoE healing, and those do not a support make. It doesn't even have Dominator's excuse of being a bizarre amalgam of CC and AoE damage (and Dominator is only really classed as support because none of the other labels fit).

    Furthermore, the OP is explicitly asking about buff/debuff focused support classes, so even if Druidicar were a support spec, it still wouldn't be the kind that he's looking for.
    Last edited by Muspel; 01-26-2014 at 10:23 AM.

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    The op never explicitly asked any such thing. It's an awesome spec considering it is a jack of all trades. If I can get thorns up without it getting overwritten, I'll do so. But spamming strike of judgment with the healing faerie provides for awesome support healing. I think you're confusing the support role with buffs only.

  8. #8
    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guidinglite View Post
    The op never explicitly asked any such thing.
    Actually, he did:
    Quote Originally Posted by ProdigalOne View Post
    How much time is spent on buffing/supporting vs dps for each class?
    Quote Originally Posted by Guidinglite View Post
    It's an awesome spec considering it is a jack of all trades.
    It's a spec that's only useful for soloing. The damage is low and the healing is not enough to replace a healer in a dungeon unless you vastly overgear it-- and since every dungeon can be easily solo healed, this means that there's no reason to use Druidicar for any group content.

  9. #9
    Soulwalker
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    TY Muspel, that was all the info i was looking for. Much appreciated.
    Last edited by ProdigalOne; 01-26-2014 at 02:28 PM.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muspel View Post
    Actually, he did: (pulls one sentence out of context)
    We hear all the time from the snobs on how support isn't necessary in 5m and we still see repeated wipes because the 'support' is in herp-derp-button-mashing dps mode and either the tank or heals (or both) are struggling. Or world content... I must be distracted by the 2-3k hps this 'weak' support spec provides. It doesn't require the SL souls either. Already enough group healing? Two seconds later you've got your dps pet out and pulling down decent numbers. Is it the best dps? No. Is it the best healing? No. Is it an awesome support spec? Yes. Is it fun to play? Yes.

    Be a bard, archon, dom, etc, etc... whatever and wherever you want. Play the game to have fun. Take opinions on here with a pinch (or bag) of salt.

  11. #11
    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guidinglite View Post
    We hear all the time from the snobs on how support isn't necessary in 5m and we still see repeated wipes because the 'support' is in herp-derp-button-mashing dps mode and either the tank or heals (or both) are struggling.
    The only time that support is appropriate in 5-mans is if the healer is inexperienced at healing. (Or if you're in expert blues doing Avoxia, since you can get totally screwed if she repeatedly webs the healer.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Guidinglite View Post
    Or world content... I must be distracted by the 2-3k hps this 'weak' support spec provides. It doesn't require the SL souls either. Already enough group healing? Two seconds later you've got your dps pet out and pulling down decent numbers. Is it the best dps? No. Is it the best healing? No. Is it an awesome support spec? Yes. Is it fun to play? Yes.
    World content is a different animal because there often aren't any healers or tanks. It has absolutely nothing to do with what happens in dungeons.

    Quote Originally Posted by Guidinglite View Post
    Be a bard, archon, dom, etc, etc... whatever and wherever you want. Play the game to have fun. Take opinions on here with a pinch (or bag) of salt.
    Play the game to have fun, but don't expect other people to put up with it if you're wasting their time by using a support spec when a DPS spec would make the dungeon go much faster. Using something like druidicar or bard in a dungeon when the group is capable of clearing it without is disrespectful to everyone else in the group.

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    I think what is very clear here is we agree to disagree.

  13. #13
    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guidinglite View Post
    I think what is very clear here is we agree to disagree.
    No. That would imply that I'm okay with your position on this, which I'm not.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muspel View Post
    No. That would imply that I'm okay with your position on this, which I'm not.
    Okay, we disagree to disagree then because I think you're full of it too.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guidinglite View Post
    Okay, we disagree to disagree then because I think you're full of it too.
    Queueing for a dungeon as support means that you're filling whatever need happens to exist. Sometimes that means providing some healing. But the overwhelming majority of the time, it means doing more DPS.

    If somebody doesn't want to do that job, then they shouldn't be queueing up to inflict their playstyle on strangers. They can form up a group from their guild or try to find people from 60 chat that are interested. But LFD is not the time or place for it.

    Whether you want to accept it or not, performance matters.

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