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Thread: Gear / Stats

  1. #1
    Shadowlander
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    Default Gear / Stats

    GEAR
    -difference between armor types Is almost nothing (cloth leather plate mail): One of the staples of role playing games for many years was armor types. Seems like the way rift is heading there is no real difference in these armor types except in the name and who can use them. There will be tanks who are wearing cloth armor in the future. There are already leather/chain that can tank ( cause all they have to do is add a tank buff that boosts armor up). Lets not forget where we came from, cloth wearers were nimble and fast but could be killed easily....while plate wearers were strong and slow but could take a beating and give one out at the same time. Without these differences in armor and classes, are we not just making them all just same? There is really two ways this can go, (1) being that we are heading to a single generic class that wears all armor and has all roles or (2) we can go back to differentiating classes/armor/roles so that people can have more of a choice on what play style they prefer. Personally I enjoy freedom to choose. Another bad thing that has been happening is with this “class can fill any role” is that many guilds are requiring people to learn/gear/play many roles. Theres the mentality of “oh you are a Cleric , you can tank heal and dps...and if you dont know how to play all 3 then we don't want you.”

    -too much generic stats on gear (ie hit/toughness): ther is +53 hit gear then there is +65 hit gear, and the hit never vaires/always the same and only occurs on certain gear/slots. Id like to see stats like this appear on all slottable items (or at least the possibility of it occuring on some of the gear for that slot). It seems like people are just chasing specific gear for certain slot just to get hit caps. I understand Trion wants to put a barrier to entry for raids, but its like a 15k dps cant raid cause he is a 25 points low on hit is ridiculous. There has to be a better way to do this. Maybe a performance based approach would be best, like a weekly quest that requires you do do sustained dps on the lvl 62 boss dummy! People who cant dps well cant finish the quest and cant enter that raid! Im also tired of seeing overgeared people who can only do half the dps they are suppose to...come on Trion fix this!

    -crap stats on gear: example being crit rating, mostly useless for classes as most people would rather have crit power because of the scaling involved.

    -generic stats for each class: Example being cleric use wisdom for dps as well as tanking. Seems to be like people can almost use 1 gear set and play all roles with it. Id like to see more gear out there that is more custom for roles. This may mean we need more types of stats. Let there be rings with healer stats on them. No more rogues rolling on str gear because str is usefull to them! No more mages rolling on cleric gear because they use wisdom too! Id say make the gear specific for roles, not for classes.

    -no sockets on gear whatsoever! Very disappointing. Many games have this feature.

    -BIS items available through non raiding activities. This is a big no-no. Pay to win! BIS essences available by rep grinding ( so Patrons get rep bonus P2W!) Also people can spend real dollars on REX and sell for plat → then buy greater essence upgrades on auction house ( same thing can be said for BIS seals, people can exchange real world money to get BIS seals)! Most serious raiding guilds require the BIS essences/seals before you an raid (seems kind of silly that you would need BIS anything to start raiding). I know Trion cant control what guilds are doing , but they can change the game so that this sort of thing doesn't happen.

    -seals/trinkets low availability : currently only seals craftable. Would be nice to be able to get some seals in dungeon or raid loot. Trinkets are sort of a rare thing to find and when they drop (even in dungeons) you will find nearly all players rolling on it (because 1 class can perform all roles ).

    -retooling stats : would like to see a way where we can change the stats we have on current gear, like in a trade off system. I can have the option to -20 wisdom for +20 hit. Something like this could be useful, in order to lessen bad stats while boosting good ones.

    Customoztion is KEY! We want to be able to customize our characters for the specific role we want to play! This means we want to be able to put specific runes on specific gear. We want to be able to retool the stats that come on the gear, like reducing crap stats and boosting better ones! We want to be able to socket gear with gems!

  2. #2
    RIFT Guide Writer TheGrinnz's Avatar
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    You clearly have some conceptions from some other game(s). So I will preface by saying Rift is not those games. Not everything that works well in other games will work well for Rift. Some features are adapted over time and sometimes the implementation is drastically different because that's what works best.

    For your individual concerns:

    - The gear type is tied to class. So if you make plate better than cloth in a meaningful way then you need a tradeoff in some other way or why would you ever play a mage if it constantly dies in raids or pvp and warriors don't? For a similar issue you can look at how the 3 tank classes have evolved. Initially Cleric tanking and Rogue tanking were more based on avoidance but since raid bosses use a lot of spells, Warrior was the only class that was useful to tank with. Why have cleric and rogue tanks if they can't tank everything and Warrior tanks can? So their mitigation was normalized. But that doesn't mean for one second that they are the same because their utility, capabilities and playstyles are completely on different ends of the spectrum. The important part is they are all viable.

    - Hit and toughness are stats designed for raid gating, nothing more. They are on specific pieces of gear so that you get a certain amount at each tier, which allows you to do the next tier. There are now many choices to get the necessary hit gear as long as you are willing to put in some effort. And there are no overgeared players who are restricted by hit.

    - Crit rating is only crap because they don't put enough of it on gear relative to how much it's worth. If you had a choice between 50 crit power and 200 crit rating the crit rating wins out. Definite room for improvement in the itemization department. There's a complication though; crit power becomes worthless once you hit the cap with raid buffs, and crit rating becomes more worthwhile as you get more crit power and attack/spell power. So the itemization has to be dynamic based on current levels of stats.

    - Being able to do multiple roles with one set of gear is kind of the point. Rift is about playing multiple roles. If you have to grind another set of gear just to play another role it makes it that much less appealing to try. There used to be separate healing and DPS gear for clerics, but that was abolished because the only difference was that the healing gear didn't have focus (hit) and thus had higher stats, and then cleric healing specs came out that required focus (hit), and Chloromancer for mages always has. So it was just an unnecessary extra set of gear, and basically nobody used half of the vendor gear available for clerics. Tanking is the exception still, because for tanking you need defensive stats and for DPS and healing they are just a bonus, whereas for tanking offensive stats are just a bonus. You cannot expect to tank any serious content with DPS gear. There is still kind of a separation between DPS and healing gear too, because for healing you primarily want gear with spellpower, you cannot rely on chance-based crit rating and crit power. But for DPS crit power is more worthwhile because of the itemization.

    - I'm not sure what sockets would entail, but you can put a rune on any gear (some of them are notoriety restricted currently). The Runecrafter profession is based on this.

    - The essence situation is kind of dumb but essences have always been strictly available through world content, there's been no change in that regard. BiS vs non BiS does not factor into it at all.

    - Seals were added just before the launch of Storm Legion as a new gear slot, specifically to add worth to crafting professions other than Runecrafter. The new ones are a bit out of line price-wise but to be honest most of the new high-plat items can be skipped without much detriment, the slightly lower tier items are good enough. I agree trinkets are far too rare currently but again that's kind of always been true.

    - There are some instances in game now where you can "sidegrade" gear items. I believe it applies to the new PvP and raid vendor gear.
    Last edited by TheGrinnz; 11-06-2013 at 03:26 PM.

  3. #3
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    difference between armor types Is almost nothing (cloth leather plate mail): One of the staples of role playing games for many years was armor types. Seems like the way rift is heading there is no real difference in these armor types except in the name and who can use them. There will be tanks who are wearing cloth armor in the future. There are already leather/chain that can tank ( cause all they have to do is add a tank buff that boosts armor up). Lets not forget where we came from, cloth wearers were nimble and fast but could be killed easily....while plate wearers were strong and slow but could take a beating and give one out at the same time. Without these differences in armor and classes, are we not just making them all just same?
    First issue is your severe ignorance to the fact that you can't do both. You can't be tough and do good DPS at the same time. The armor "type" is based off the archtype of the class (warriors being tough aka plate armor, clerics being whatever Trion has them being with chain... rogues etc etc.

    1) being that we are heading to a single generic class that wears all armor and has all roles or (2) we can go back to differentiating classes/armor/roles so that people can have more of a choice on what play style they prefer. Personally I enjoy freedom to choose. Another bad thing that has been happening is with this “class can fill any role” is that many guilds are requiring people to learn/gear/play many roles. Theres the mentality of “oh you are a Cleric , you can tank heal and dps...and if you dont know how to play all 3 then we don't want you.”
    1) There are significant differentiations to each such as playstyle, archtype (as mentioned above in armor and spells) and gear styles.
    2)The fact that all classes will be able to support, dps, heal and tank does not show homogenization, although that could be a possibility if not kept in check. You still have the choice to be a cleric healer and NOT tank.
    3) I haven't seen a guild that requires you to tank dps AND heal as a cleric, although it is beneficial. It does make you more marketable to guilds, and shows that you want the Raid to succeed, not just yourself. One of my IGF (in game friend) only does cleric DPS cuz he likes it, was accepted into a guild as that, but has learned to puri and warden JUST IN CASE the raid needs it. He has yet to do that in a raid.

    -too much generic stats on gear (ie hit/toughness): ther is +53 hit gear then there is +65 hit gear, and the hit never vaires/always the same and only occurs on certain gear/slots. Id like to see stats like this appear on all slottable items (or at least the possibility of it occuring on some of the gear for that slot).
    Runes...

    Im also tired of seeing overgeared people who can only do half the dps they are suppose to...come on Trion fix this
    Trion is a company that makes a game, they don't fix stupid... You should look elsewhere.

    crap stats on gear: example being crit rating, mostly useless for classes as most people would rather have crit power because of the scaling involved
    I do agree somewhat, but without crit chance, crit power would be crap.

    generic stats for each class: Example being cleric use wisdom for dps as well as tanking. Seems to be like people can almost use 1 gear set and play all roles with it. Id like to see more gear out there that is more custom for roles. This may mean we need more types of stats. Let there be rings with healer stats on them. No more rogues rolling on str gear because str is usefull to them! No more mages rolling on cleric gear because they use wisdom too! Id say make the gear specific for roles, not for classes.
    Do you even Rift? Clearly not. You try tanking in your DPS gear... see how that works. Also, pro tip... Rogues don't want STR, they take the weapons because of the Dex/CP on it and the weapon DPS.

    BIS items available through non raiding activities. This is a big no-no. Pay to win! BIS essences available by rep grinding ( so Patrons get rep bonus P2W!)
    I do agree with you on this.
    -no sockets on gear whatsoever! Very disappointing. Many games have this feature.
    You clearly want WoW... Rifts version of "sockets" are runes.

    Most serious raiding guilds require the BIS essences/seals before you an raid (seems kind of silly that you would need BIS anything to start raiding
    Because gear increases DPS/HPS/survivability... Only guilds that require that are serious raiding guilds... where it actually matters.

    Customoztion is KEY! We want to be able to customize our characters for the specific role we want to play! This means we want to be able to put specific runes on specific gear. We want to be able to retool the stats that come on the gear, like reducing crap stats and boosting better ones! We want to be able to socket gear with gems!
    I really hope you do know how to spell. You want WoW, nothing that your stating is needed. That being said, I did hear a rumor of being able to redo certain stats on gear.


    Main points, you want World of Warcraft... I hear they are considering F2P. Rift doesn't need to be an identical clone of WoW, and that seems to be what you want. Give that a try instead.
    \

  4. #4
    RIFT Guide Writer TheGrinnz's Avatar
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    Another interesting tidbit related to the Str/Dex Wis/Int thing. Before Storm Legion, Strength gear was actually best in slot for some Cleric specs. Yeah compared to that the stat layout is amazing now. Mages don't want wisdom, they want spellpower and even high wisdom gear gives them some, but high intelligence gear is vastly preferable.
    Last edited by TheGrinnz; 11-06-2013 at 03:39 PM.

  5. #5
    Shadowlander
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    First issue is your severe ignorance to the fact that you can't do both. You can't be tough and do good DPS at the same time. The armor "type" is based off the archtype of the class (warriors being tough aka plate armor, clerics being whatever Trion has them being with chain... rogues etc etc.
    BTW, Calling someone ignorant does not make u superior to them. I'm posting my ideas on things, its certainly fine for you to disagree but not cool to flame. I am merely stating that there should be some fundamental differences between armor types. As of now I do not really see any except the fact that certain classes can only wear certain types.


    3) I haven't seen a guild that requires you to tank dps AND heal as a cleric, although it is beneficial. It does make you more marketable to guilds, and shows that you want the Raid to succeed, not just yourself. One of my IGF (in game friend) only does cleric DPS cuz he likes it, was accepted into a guild as that, but has learned to puri and warden JUST IN CASE the raid needs it. He has yet to do that in a raid.
    Many guilds want people to play more than one role and be good at it , at least for raiding purposes. There is no ALL or NONE , just shades of grey. This said it would be nice to have a dps toon that I can play without people asking me to heal or tank.


    Do you even Rift? Clearly not. You try tanking in your DPS gear... see how that works. Also, pro tip... Rogues don't want STR, they take the weapons because of the Dex/CP on it and the weapon DPS.
    Yes I have tanked experts in dps gear, except for a few pieces I need for toughness. Called a dps tank that can pull high dps for faster clearing. Yes I do know that rogues want Dex/Cp, but it still doesnt stop droves of them taking a warrior item that is an upgrade for them (yes str is used partially by rogues, you can easily check this by simply rolling a rogue , then mouseover the STR stats in the character menu.) Warrior gear also has dex on it as well, many many times in raids and experts i see rogues wanting these items.






    You clearly want WoW... Rifts version of "sockets" are runes.
    Runes are same thing as Enchants in WoW. And sockets/gems were not pioneered by Wow, this concept has been around for a long time. RIFT has many things that WoW has, and Im not saying Trion copied stuff from WoW. What I am saying that within this genre there are certain expectations by people who play in the genre. Maybe you only play Rift and thats all you know, because that is what it sounds like to me. Personally I have played role playing games since before they were computer games, so I have seen the progression of it.



    Because gear increases DPS/HPS/survivability... Only guilds that require that are serious raiding guilds... where it actually matters.
    I disagree with you here, player skill and dedication are most important in serious raiding guilds. You get the top end gear by successfully defeating raid bosses. Conversely having good gear does not guarantee boss kills and loot.



    I really hope you do know how to spell. You want WoW, nothing that your stating is needed. That being said, I did hear a rumor of being able to redo certain stats on gear.
    Yes I made a typo, you can shoot me now ><.

    Still im sure every player would agree being able to at least partially change stats on your gear would be beneficial, especially when overcapped on hit or crit power. You are also talking about WoW a little too much, this thread is about Rift and some great ideas I have to improve the game.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cruica View Post
    Still im sure every player would agree being able to at least partially change stats on your gear would be beneficial, especially when overcapped on hit or crit power. You are also talking about WoW a little too much, this thread is about Rift and some great ideas I have to improve the game.
    You can't be capped on hit, well I guess you can but hit doesn't work as function of the ilevel (yes ilevel exists it's just not shown) of gear as it does in say WoW. As the 'TheGrinnz' said it's used to gate content. To raid T2 you get your items from T1 that has the amount of hit. If we look at the world gear it has 53 hit you can upgrade it to several levels now but the one thing that doesn't change is the hit, it's still 53!

    Since some one brought up WoWs customisation. In the next expansion they are completely removing reforging (secondary stats reallocation), some items will not have sockets for gems and some items wont be enchanted. There's such a thing as too much customisation it seems.

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