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Thread: Rez vs Non-Rez Healers

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    Telaran Nyxxian's Avatar
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    Default Rez vs Non-Rez Healers

    I was looking over the list of cleric classes and thinking about those that have no rez. Obviously, it's a little complicated because being a cleric in Rift doesn't mean that you're actually a healer. But for those classes who ARE healing focused, the rez thing seems like it could be an issue and I wondered what other folks' opinions were.

    I'm wondering if the lack of a rez is going to make those healers undesirable, especially for a PUG or exploring new content where it's easy to die. Obviously, you can mix and match souls to try and pick up a rez, but that also means that you're not going to put 51 points into a soul like the Warden. So will the lack of a rez mean there are sets of souls where very few people would consider going all in? Or does the strength of the heals on a class like the Warden make up for it?

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    Rift Disciple forestwhitakereye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyxxian View Post
    I was looking over the list of cleric classes and thinking about those that have no rez. Obviously, it's a little complicated because being a cleric in Rift doesn't mean that you're actually a healer. But for those classes who ARE healing focused, the rez thing seems like it could be an issue and I wondered what other folks' opinions were.

    I'm wondering if the lack of a rez is going to make those healers undesirable, especially for a PUG or exploring new content where it's easy to die. Obviously, you can mix and match souls to try and pick up a rez, but that also means that you're not going to put 51 points into a soul like the Warden. So will the lack of a rez mean there are sets of souls where very few people would consider going all in? Or does the strength of the heals on a class like the Warden make up for it?
    A Warden could always keep another Purifier or Sentinel spec so that if someone died, they could switch roles, perform the rez and switch back. It's probably not a terrible idea either, because then they could pick the soul best suited to healing a particular encounter.

    Personally, I'd prefer having every class be able to do an out of combat rez. Not only does it do away with the idea of preferring rezzing classes to others (or in Rift's case, keeping extra rezzing specs around), but also it does away with situations where the group is fine if the healer lives (no matter who else dies), and totally screwed if the healer dies. I don't want to derail the thread and get into the whole subject of whether corpse runs are better or worse, but whatever the death system is, I think it should apply equally to everybody.

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    Rift Chaser Scythras's Avatar
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    Not a big deal in this game with mixing souls but I do think that the 51 point talents in a non-rezzing healer tree would go almost completely unused because they would almost always go to another soul to pick up a rez. Then again, in the case of the warden, a lot of their high end abilities are AoE heals so maybe they are more for raiding where there will be more than one other person who can rez, who knows. I do like the idea of the out of combat rez though, it makes a lot of sense for game mechanics even if it doesn't in the lore.

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    Telaran Sekkong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by forestwhitakereye View Post
    A Warden could always keep another Purifier or Sentinel spec so that if someone died, they could switch roles, perform the rez and switch back. It's probably not a terrible idea either, because then they could pick the soul best suited to healing a particular encounter.

    Personally, I'd prefer having every class be able to do an out of combat rez. Not only does it do away with the idea of preferring rezzing classes to others (or in Rift's case, keeping extra rezzing specs around), but also it does away with situations where the group is fine if the healer lives (no matter who else dies), and totally screwed if the healer dies. I don't want to derail the thread and get into the whole subject of whether corpse runs are better or worse, but whatever the death system is, I think it should apply equally to everybody.
    You bring up an interesting point thou.. Until we know the system and understand how a ingame death will really effect a group of people in an instance or open world area.. Its kind of a mute point right? But it is something maybe a developer might be able to answer for us before things go crazy and get out of hand for sure. =-).

    I plan on playing a healer as my main. IN eq2 i played a mystic which is a shaman class role. So when I looked at healing classes in this game I found it very interesting mix. As for the route I want to go I am still deciding and probably be finally decided until either beta or more information comes out on each class and there actual abilities ;-).

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    Champion of Telara Selene's Avatar
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    I think that out of combat rezzes won't matter too much, since you can just switch your spec if you need to. You also don't need to go very deep into a tree to get one if you prefer to hybridize.

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    Champion of Telara Shagroth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sekkong View Post
    You bring up an interesting point thou.. Until we know the system and understand how a ingame death will really effect a group of people in an instance or open world area.. Its kind of a mute point right? But it is something maybe a developer might be able to answer for us before things go crazy and get out of hand for sure. =-).

    I plan on playing a healer as my main. IN eq2 i played a mystic which is a shaman class role. So when I looked at healing classes in this game I found it very interesting mix. As for the route I want to go I am still deciding and probably be finally decided until either beta or more information comes out on each class and there actual abilities ;-).
    Well the biggest thing is that Russ confirmed that you can switch your builds as long as you're not in combat. I saw gameplay of this at GC where they went from pally to voidknight(?) literally on the fly. So in that case, end game wise - you can quickly pop yourself over to a rez class then right back to heal/dmg. I'm looking forward to situations where I can acrually melee or DPS a bit before switching to healing and whatnot.
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    Prophet of Telara Mercury's Avatar
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    It would be refreshing to see other archetypes get the most effective rezzers. Like the Warlock, Chloromancer or Necromancer. Give healing clerics single target rez and a 10 second channel AoE rez, while Warlocks and Necros can rez in battle...

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    Ascendant rabb1t's Avatar
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    A few things to remember...

    - There is nothing preventing a group from taking more than one Cleric.

    - There are non-Clerics who may be able to rez, such as Paladin or the 'raid healing mage' mentioned in a video.

    - These are not confirmed abilities for launch, and they are likely incomplete lists. It's entirely possible that every Cleric class will have some kind of rez in their ability line at the time of launch.

    - And of course, as mentioned, once you have unlocked multiple soul specs (remember, four have been mentioned as the current max) all you have to do - if you are a type of person who doesn't normally have rez - is make a combination which does have rez should the group need it.
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    Plane Walker Goremarr's Avatar
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    I don't think I've seen a 51-point ability on any videos yet that has been absolutely mind-blowing and something that someone who invests in that soul *needs* to have. Most of them seem to be very situational abilities. It looks like what they're doing is building souls this way on purpose to encourage 'multi-classing'. If you want to go full-bore and invest 51 points into a soul then go for it. However, you have to do it with the understanding that, as a 'pure' soul, it will come with limitations that you may not have if you split your points between two or three souls.

    In-combat is gonna be the kicker, since those seem to be very limited. The only one that I remember off-hand as having in-combat resurrection was the Justicar (a 31-point branch ability as well as a 20-point root ability). Maybe more will pop up as more is revealed, but as it is right now, there are some big decisions to make if you want in-combat resurrection at your disposal.

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    Shield of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercury View Post
    It would be refreshing to see other archetypes get the most effective rezzers. Like the Warlock, Chloromancer or Necromancer. Give healing clerics single target rez and a 10 second channel AoE rez, while Warlocks and Necros can rez in battle...
    lol! no...
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    Shield of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goremarr View Post
    I don't think I've seen a 51-point ability on any videos yet that has been absolutely mind-blowing and something that someone who invests in that soul *needs* to have. Most of them seem to be very situational abilities. It looks like what they're doing is building souls this way on purpose to encourage 'multi-classing'. If you want to go full-bore and invest 51 points into a soul then go for it. However, you have to do it with the understanding that, as a 'pure' soul, it will come with limitations that you may not have if you split your points between two or three souls.

    In-combat is gonna be the kicker, since those seem to be very limited. The only one that I remember off-hand as having in-combat resurrection was the Justicar (a 31-point branch ability as well as a 20-point root ability). Maybe more will pop up as more is revealed, but as it is right now, there are some big decisions to make if you want in-combat resurrection at your disposal.
    the Sentinel can rez in combat also..
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    Champion of Telara Shagroth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exclusive View Post
    lol! no...
    Why not, they've done it in other MMOs and it wasn't a problem.
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    Prophet of Telara Mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exclusive View Post
    lol! no...
    In AoC, Conquerors could rez in battle (dual wield tank) - in Allods, Paladins and Summoners had battle rez (tank and pet warlock)

    In neither of those games, healers could rez in battle. It worked nicely. Of course, all of these abilities had at least a 2 minute cool down.

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    Plane Walker Goremarr's Avatar
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    Sorry, I must've blinked and missed the Sentinel's in-combat resurrection. At 10 minutes in between uses (at the moment) it's one of those, "****, I really hope this is the only person who gets whacked in the next 10 minutes" abilities, whereas the Justicar can get at least 3 of their in-combat do-hickeys off for every 2 Sentinel do-hickeys (the root ability is a 5-minute cooldown, the branch ability doesn't list the cooldown). Even when you add the Sentinel into the mix, that's still 2 Cleric souls out of 6 (if my math is correct) that we have seen ability lists for. I think we're more likely to see these abilities scattered around among the other callings then we are to see more Clerics with them.

    As far as the 'two healer' thing goes, there is absolutely nothing stopping a group from taking 2 healers into a situation. However, it was mentioned in an interview some time after E3 that they were going with the 5-man group specifically so that taking a second healer would sting and people don't start stacking healers just because their group wasn't able to handle an instance that was beyond their ability to complete. It's definitely an option, but if they're tuning things around having one healer in a group, taking a second healer would more than likely remove the only reason that you are taking the second healer with you to begin with, wouldn't it?
    Last edited by Goremarr; 09-23-2010 at 03:30 PM.

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    Ascendant rabb1t's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goremarr View Post
    I don't think I've seen a 51-point ability on any videos yet that has been absolutely mind-blowing and something that someone who invests in that soul *needs* to have.
    Yeah, from what I've seen of the abilities from the con footage it looks like I'd be far more interested in doing a 32 / 18 (1 left over) split as that gets you nearly all of the abilities in the main class and a ton from the second. That seems far more benefitial than the 3 remaining abilities you'd get sticking to pure single class. But these are old builds, and we don't know what things will look like at launch, so I'm not setting anything in stone. However, there are devs from DAOC and things did seem pretty balanced in terms of talent builds and dept of each line in terms of specalizing in one vs. splitting out a bit to take some from the other lines so I feel pretty confident something similar (maybe not this exact point split) should work pretty well.
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