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Thread: Non-positional Melee DPS

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    Soulwalker Skybyrd's Avatar
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    Default Non-positional Melee DPS

    One of the things I loved about my EQ1 ranger vs. rogue was that I didn't have to have the mob's back to do damage.

    I've noticed that there seems to be a lack of non-positional melee dps class options in many MMO's.

    I'm intrigued by the idea of the bladedancer, as it seems to imply that they won't be required to stare at the mob's back in groups, and they don't have to constantly jump around when soloing.

    I really hope this is the game where being a millimeter off on position doesn't hurt my dps.

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    RIFT Fan Site Operator Raive's Avatar
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    Well the only real positional melee dps is Rogue. I haven't seen many classes aside rogue type that required positional damage. Can you give any examples?

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    Rift Chaser Zephyroth's Avatar
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    Raive is right tho.. played a lot of mmo.. and only rogues required to be behind
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    Sword of Telara souper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raive
    Well the only real positional melee dps is Rogue. I haven't seen many classes aside rogue type that required positional damage. Can you give any examples?
    Same. However, non-positional classes tend to be more "brutish" vs "roguish", like a ranger, so that might be the concern for some.

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    RIFT Fan Site Operator Raive's Avatar
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    Yeah I was thinking along the lines of monks, rangers, berserkers, bards as non-positional melee dps. I could be missing a class or two but I believe rogue is the only class where you had to be behind the mob in order to achieve maximum dps. Now OP could be coming off of like accuracy as in some mmos if you hit the mob from behind you have a higher chance of hitting...if that's the case then it makes sense for it to stay that way.

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    Soulwalker Skybyrd's Avatar
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    In pretty much every game i've tried, melee dps=rogue=positional attacks.

    WoW's DK wasn't bad, but were mainly set up to be tankish.

    I don't wanna tank.

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    RIFT Fan Site Operator Raive's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skybyrd View Post
    In pretty much every game i've tried, melee dps=rogue=positional attacks.

    WoW's DK wasn't bad, but were mainly set up to be tankish.

    I don't wanna tank.
    Of course, rogues are THE positional class. I hope you're not requesting that they not be positional

    And the DK is a different ballgame.

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    Sword of Telara souper's Avatar
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    Well, WoW also had Fury Warriors and Combat Rogues, neither one required positionals.

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    Rift Disciple Wisdomandlore's Avatar
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    LOTRO had three: Champion, and Captains and Guardians when specced right. FFXI had a ton. Dark Knight, Monk, Samurai, Warrior, and Dragoon (unless you use Thief as your subclass, in which case all of those jobs would become based on positional damage to some extent).

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    RIFT Fan Site Operator Raive's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wisdomandlore View Post
    LOTRO had three: Champion, and Captains and Guardians when specced right. FFXI had a ton. Dark Knight, Monk, Samurai, Warrior, and Dragoon (unless you use Thief as your subclass, in which case all of those jobs would become based on positional damage to some extent).
    Hehe more examples.

    But I guess in the end, not all melee dps classes are positional as what the OP was wondering.

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    Ascendant Europe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skybyrd View Post
    In pretty much every game i've tried, melee dps=rogue=positional attacks.

    WoW's DK wasn't bad, but were mainly set up to be tankish.

    I don't wanna tank.
    The main rogue spec for years (combat swords) wasn't positional at all. Made me sad to see daggers rot all that time
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    Ascendant Kalbuir's Avatar
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    The only way positional dps can work is if the approach to it is much wider than what we have all seen from rogue's in the past. Just like there is a class that shines from behind, there should be a plate wearer class that shines from frontal dmg. I would also like to see a large majority of the classes get a small dps boost from having certain classes flank their enemies and have a set bonus from behind or ignore a portion of their defense.

    To make this work:
    - the pathing of mobs should be solid and predictable
    - if they get stuck all the time this system is clearly doomed to fail
    - if casters don't move it is doomed to fail
    - if everything has certain directional aoe's it is doomed to fail.

    If implemented well I think it could work quite nicely! However if some aspects are flawed it does more harm than good and its better to just leave it out I guess.

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    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raive View Post
    Yeah I was thinking along the lines of monks, rangers, berserkers, bards as non-positional melee dps. I could be missing a class or two but I believe rogue is the only class where you had to be behind the mob in order to achieve maximum dps. Now OP could be coming off of like accuracy as in some mmos if you hit the mob from behind you have a higher chance of hitting...if that's the case then it makes sense for it to stay that way.
    the drunken monk in vg is a positional melee dps class due to errant stikes but not positional due to the mob just positional relative to the tank. and yea mobs with frontal ae cones made getting close enough to the mt without getting aed isnt always easy as you would think.

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    Soulwalker Destral's Avatar
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    WoW does have the whole business with Melee DPS needing to be behind the mob to avoid parries though, so you still end up with rogues, death knights, shamans, cat druids and hunter pets behind the mob while the tank is in front. So unless Trion are doing combat differently from that, chances are all melee DPS are still going to be behind the mob. Possible ways to fix this might be having certain classes that have abilities or talents that make it less likely for the mob to parry attacks, or have mobs that have different positional perceptions with different chances of dodging/parrying/blocking attacks from different directions. For example, if you have a mob that is carrying a huge tower shield on their left arm, all attacks from the left 90-120 degree arc around the mob would have a higher chance of getting blocked, meaning players who are aware of this will try to position themselves towards the mob's right side - even players with positioning-critical roles, like tanks and rogues would benefit from trying to inch to the mob's right side, although the tank especially would have to make sure they aren't shifting the mob's placing around such that the DPS are doing less damage to blocked attacks.

    Stuff like that could be pretty cool.

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    Ascendant Liziana's Avatar
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    DAoC had positional skills which became available if you were placed at the side of the mob...can't remember the class such a long time ago.
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