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Thread: Do you want exclusive healing roles?

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    Ascendant Europe's Avatar
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    Default Do you want exclusive healing roles?

    That is to say, should there be roles within the umbrella of "healer classes?"

    Let's make up some classes. We'll use cleric and druid

    Should clerics be pure tank healers? Such that if you bring 5 clerics, you may not be able to complete content.

    All the same, should druid or somebody else be pure group/raid healers without the ability to fill in for a cleric?
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    Champion of Telara Doc's Avatar
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    PvE wise no one cares as long as your not like WTFOMG over powered tanking group mobs like 2 at a time, and killing 6-8 regular mobs by yourself. I like the Idea of a Cleric or in my last case a Zealot being a pure healer with little offensive abilities other than debuff, but its just not practical .

    PvP wise this is tough, but needs balance. I can heal so I shouldn't do butt tons of damage, but at the same time I need to be able to balance me healing and the attackers hp going down while i'm attacking. This differes from class to class, but the fairest way is the rock paper scissors approach

    Tank<Magic DPS
    Magic DPS< Healer
    Healer<Physical DPS
    Physical DPS< Tank

    You may ask why is tank better than PDPS? Well you are a solid metal tank with plate/chain weave/Shields the Size of you. You are not a little girl using a stuffed bear to defend yourself. You should have immense amounts of HP, and be hard as diamonds to kill with physical damage!

    Also and because this method does not work no matter how much you want it to
    Tank=MDPS=Healer=PDPS
    Though with the right resistances, and skill sets I do see you being able to take on your weaker part, but then you will be weaker against what you were originally strong against.

    At least that's how I feel.

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    Sword of Telara souper's Avatar
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    I dunno, it depends on a lot on what they're doing with the classes.

    At the moment, I'd say "yes" to specializations. A single-target healer, a group-healer, a HoT healer. Etc. everyone with reasonable overlap though. Same for damage and tanking classes too. Systems like that have their pros and cons obviously but they do help counter homogenization. Being basically the same thing as the other guy just with different spell effects isn't that exciting.

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    Prophet of Telara Eldran's Avatar
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    I think they should be flexible.

    Eg. if (using your example) you had a team with 5 clerics, then they could somewhat moderate the team's lack of variety by equipping different gear. One could equip armour with lots of defense bonuses. One could equip armour with lots of healing bonuses. And the others could equip damage gear (either melee or spellcasting).

    That kind of setup lets people play whatever class appeals to them, and still give them some wriggle room to be useful in teams.

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    Prophet of Telara Ravenwolf's Avatar
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    Yea i think giving the ability to all healers so slot into what is needed is better than having exclusive roles, i hated in other games not being able to tank heal when i was needed to just because my main role was raid healer. Flexibility is the best as Eldran stated.

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    faiths, ?

    druid = nature
    cleric = pick a god?

    There should be healing, so long as that doctrine dictates that healing is supported. A druid might be more willing to heal a wounded bear if i were struck by a trap, as that is an un-natural invasion to the creature, while at the same time he/she may let a rabbit die if it is the meal of said bear.
    faiths could have some sort of aura, that affects acts of faith. An example 2 healers respond to a wounded soldier one is of a war doctrine the other a pure health and healing doctrine. The 2 heal at stock rate, if the situation was different and they both were of the same faith then bonuses would be applied.

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    Ascendant Apoth's Avatar
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    I think more "hybridization" (is that even a word) of healers is important. lets face it not to many people want to just sit back and stare at healthbars (sure some do but not many).

    I think giving healers the option to switch to a tanking stance, or a DPS stance would be good for the game. heck to even take it a step further allow them to perform their healing i different ways

    for example Warhammers Warrior priest a class that has to melee in order to build up their healing mana and had melee attacks that healed their defensive target by 200% of whatever damage they did. so many times they had to get in the thick of combat in order to perform some of their healers.


    have another class that does that from range aoe lifetap enemies and AOE heal their group, maybe even debuff their enemies and buff their group.

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    Ascendant Europe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apoth View Post
    I think more "hybridization" (is that even a word) of healers is important. lets face it not to many people want to just sit back and stare at healthbars (sure some do but not many).

    I think giving healers the option to switch to a tanking stance, or a DPS stance would be good for the game. heck to even take it a step further allow them to perform their healing i different ways

    for example Warhammers Warrior priest a class that has to melee in order to build up their healing mana and had melee attacks that healed their defensive target by 200% of whatever damage they did. so many times they had to get in the thick of combat in order to perform some of their healers.

    have another class that does that from range aoe lifetap enemies and AOE heal their group, maybe even debuff their enemies and buff their group.
    This is not what I meant. I meant WITHIN THE HEALING ARCHETYPE, should there be a difference in each class' ability to heal a given situation? Should clerics be "the" single target healers, but when you get 3, you cannot complete the encounter because they can't group heal?

    Or should all of the healers have the ability to fill in for whatever you're missing? IE: if three healers show up, you can just put some of them on raid heal and you're okay.
    Last edited by Europe; 05-02-2010 at 01:29 AM.
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    I mean, I guess it would just be a guy who you know, grabs bananas and runs. Or, um, a banana that grabs things. I donít know.
    Why would a banana grab another banana? I mean, those are the kind of questions I donít want to answer.

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    Ascendant Kalbuir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Europe View Post
    This is not what I meant. I meant WITHIN THE HEALING ARCHETYPE, should there be a difference in each class' ability to heal a given situation? Should clerics be "the" single target healers, but when you get 3, you cannot complete the encounter because they can't group heal?

    Or should all of the healers have the ability to fill in for whatever you're missing? IE: if three healers show up, you can just put some of them on raid heal and you're okay.
    I think each healer class should play distinctively different from each other, each having situations where he/she shines but also have situations where he needs to work harder than the other healers to achieve the same.

    - One healer could be good at preventing damage (reactive &wards)
    - One healer could be the king of single target healing (big and fast heals but on longer cooldowns)
    - One healer could be the HoT healer providing the groups and single targets with strong heal over times but would be unable to do much against spike dmg.
    - One healer could be very good at healing groups of people, but have trouble focusing it on one person.

    Next to that but that is kinda off topic healers should have plenty to do besides heal, they don't have to rock the dps charts or be able to fill other primary roles but they need to have more to do than heal. of course there are situations where just healing is important but in every game there are situations where you can balance your activities. I am thinking about debuffing, temp buffs, links to other players, pushing hate to other players, other utility, DoTs and some basic form of dmg.

    Regards,
    Kalbuir

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    Official Rift Fan Site Operator Ciovala's Avatar
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    I'd rather have different healers which all have a different style to playing them (so people can find one that they find fun), but can fill any role. Of course, if they all don't have equivalent 'dps' sides, then you'll run into the problem of tons of people complaining since another class is easy to solo and can also heal well, and theirs can't, etc.

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    Rift Disciple Protos's Avatar
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    Within the healing archetype, it seems to be that there will be 8 different styles of healer, according to the 32 class system. That is going to be an absolute nightmare to balance and organise in-game, but it's going to be hella fun haha.

    I think Kal's hit the nail on the head there. 4 types: preventative, powerful, long-term and area. I am also thinking after that idea that there couldn't possibly be 8 different classes for each archetype, there are simply not enough different roles to fulfill, so there'll probably be 4 for each. I don't like the idea of each lot of 4 being too different from their opposites, but I guess we'll have to wait and see.
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    Keeping it basic at the "single dd, HoT, and Area" can preserve a lot of what we are use to. At the cutting edge there will always be a role = best but that is going very extreme and I don't suspect it will cripple anyone at the group or raid (if there is raid) level.

    I want to know more how these types will be executed. Being a fan of "reactives / wards / damage-to-heal", I hope we see a lot mroe flavor out there. Monk/Bloodmage was pretty awesome in VG. There are a lot of people that look at healing as targeting players etc and casting "green numbers". Damage prevention is a whole topics that could be in "healer" aka shamans.

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    Rift Disciple Wisdomandlore's Avatar
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    I think if you eliminated pure healer roles, you would have just as many people upset as if you eliminated tanking roles. That being said, healers obviously need some DPS capabilities (WoW Shadowform, LOTRO Warspeech). And other classes should have some heals, to the point where if you brought a couple of them, it might make up for it. For example, in LOTRO, a some combination of a Burglar, Captain, and LM (or just a really good Captain) could replace a Minstrel.

    Overall I want to see more flavor in healing. EQ2 and Vanguard had some good ideas. WoW Priests were pretty standard. LOTRO Minstrels were boring (only about 5 real heals, although their DPS and buffs were fun), but Runekeepers (all HoT and channeled spells) were great,

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    Ascendant Apoth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Europe View Post
    This is not what I meant. I meant WITHIN THE HEALING ARCHETYPE, should there be a difference in each class' ability to heal a given situation? Should clerics be "the" single target healers, but when you get 3, you cannot complete the encounter because they can't group heal?
    well put that way no healing should not be situational. now maybe like EQ2 had some healers (in raiding) would be better suited for certain groups than other healers, but that would be because of buffs not heals . have melee DPS group ... X healer is good for that group because a lot of their buffs buff melee damage. Caster group Y healer is good because they boost casting speed and intel.
    Last edited by Apoth; 05-02-2010 at 10:05 AM.

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    Plane Touched
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apoth View Post
    well put that way no healing should not be situational. now maybe like EQ2 had some healers (in raiding) would be better suited for certain groups than other healers, but that would be because of buffs not heals . have melee DPS group ... X healer is good for that group because a lot of their buffs buff melee damage. Caster group Y healer is good because they boost casting speed and intel.
    Agreed. I'm actually a big fan of the eq2 approach to healing at it's basis. Shaman, cleric, druid system works pretty well. Granted some are a little better for certain roles, but the three systems of healing seems to work well. For those of you who don't know, eq2 healing has 3 different "types" of primary healing methods.

    Shamans = cast wards. These wards basically prevent dmg from ever reaching the group members. All dmg is absorbed before it even effects the players HP.
    Clerics = reactive heals. Every time the player is hit, it heals the player for a certain amount of HP.
    Druids = heal over time/direct heals. When you see someones hp going down, you cast heals over time and direct heals to compensate.

    Each healer of course has various debuffs that they bring to the table, and some can even do respectable dps with the right stances/ AA's.

    I do like the idea of a healer generating heals when they dmg the mob though. In eq2 they have druids able to actually do dmg every time they heal, which is similar.

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