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Thread: Bard Soul Discussion

  1. #1
    Plane Touched hydd's Avatar
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    Default Bard Soul Discussion

    In the recent revealing of the bard soul tree I can't help but critique it. Being the min/maxxer and avid bard lover I can't say that any person who plays their character to the extreme will enjoy this soul due to the way combo points are administered via Candence (You continuously strum your lute that deals 19 Life damage over 4 seconds[4.75 DPS]. Damage increases with Dexterity. Awards 1 combo point. While channeling this ability, you gain an additional combo point per second.) because you simply press Candence and wait until you're at your combo point limit and you click a coda then you're back clicking Candence. There are a few variations if you choose to pick them inside the soul tree such as Power Chord (You play a chord that deals 6 to 7 Life damage. Damage increases with Dexterity. Awards 2 Combo Points) or Riff (You play a succession of notes that deals 17 to 19 Life Damage. Damage increases with Dexterity. Awards 5 combo points.) both of which will likely have semi-long cooldowns.

    Before I go any further I must commend the utility this class has. The impact this single class can give a raid is really quite heroic. I only have a few qualms with the buffs components that lack % increases (I'll speak further on this once learn more about game mechanics) but other than that, this class looks like it can dish-out a ton of support to the raid/group. But why should we punish the player who wants to support with terribly bland game mechanics? When I saw that Rift was using a combo point system I accepted it knowing that it has done well in similar games but seeing that a bard is affected by combo points and not instruments just spells LAZY to me. Also, I'm not expecting a bard to do as much damage as any other rogue calling but I am asking for something to do other than watching my character channel a spell while I'm advancing my combo points. If Candence is here to stay and those of you at Trion truly believe that this is the way the Bard should be played then you will find this class highly scripted.

    I categorized the different buffs and combat abilities so they're easy to read here. I got them all from Telarapedia.

    Anthems:

    Anthem of Glory - You play an Anthem that increases the armor of party and raid members by 102. Lasts until canceled. Players can only have 1 Anthem per Bard at a time.

    Anthem of Defiance - You play an Anthem that increases the elemental resistance of party and raid members by 70. Lasts until canceled. Players can only have 1 Anthem per Bard at a time.

    Anthem of Indomitable Will - You play an Anthem that increases the life and death resistance of party and raid members by 70. Lasts until canceled. Players can only have 1 Anthem per Bard at a time.

    Anthem of Competence - You play an Anthem that increases the movement speed of party and raid members by 15. Lasts until canceled. Players can only have 1 Anthem per Bard at a time.


    Codas:

    Coda of Bravery - You play a Coda that uses Combo Points to increase the damage of party and raid members by 2% per Combo Point. Lasts 60 seconds.

    Coda of Focus - You play a Coda that uses Combo Points to increase the Critical Hit and Spell Critical Hit chance of party and raid members by 2% per Combo Point. Lasts 60 seconds.

    Coda of Cowardice - You play a Coda that uses Combo Points to reduce the damage of the target and enemies around the target by 1% per Combo Point. Lasts 30 seconds.

    Coda of Regeneration - You play a Coda that uses combo points to instantly heal party and raid members over 15 seconds. 1 Point: 40 hit points. 2 Points: 79 hit points. 3 Points: 119 hit points. 4 Points: 158 hit points. 5 Points: 198 hit points.

    Coda of Distress - You play a Coda that uses Combo Points to increase the damage taken by the target and enemies around the target by 2% per Combo Point. Lasts 30 seconds.

    Coda of Tenacity - You play a Coda that uses Combo Points to reduce the damage taken by party and raid members by 1% per Combo Point. Lasts 60 seconds

    Coda of Wrath - You play a Coda that uses combo points to deal Life damage. Damage increases with Dexterity. Energy cost is reduced with more combo points. 1 Point: 12 damage. 2 Points: 21 damage. 3 Points: 29 damage. 4 Points: 33 damage. 5 Points: 41 damage.

    Coda of Fury - You play a Coda that uses combo points to deal Life damage to the main target and enemies within 5 meters of the main target. Damage increases with Dexterity. Energy cost is reduced with more combo points. 1 Point: 17 damage. 2 Points: 29 damage. 3 Points: 41 damage. 4 Points: 46 damage. 5 Points: 58 damage.

    Coda of Restoration - You play a Coda that uses combo points to instantly heal party and raid members. 1 Point: 52 hit points. 2 Points: 104 hit points. 3 Points: 156 hit points. 4 Points: 208 hit points. 5 Points: 260 hit points.


    Fanfares:

    Fanfare of Vigor - You play a Fanfare that increases the maximum health of party and raid members by 88. Lasts 1 hour. Players can only have 1 Fanfare per Bard at a time.

    Fanfare of Knowledge - You play a Fanfare that increases all attributes of party and raid members by 9. Lasts 1 hour. Players can only have 1 Fanfare per Bard at a time.

    Fanfare of Power - You play a Fanfare that increases party and raid members Attack Power by 118 and Spell Power by 118. Lasts 1 hour. Players can only have 1 Fanfare per Bard at a time.


    Verses:

    Verse of Fascination - You play a Verse that mesmerizes enemies within 7 meters for 8 seconds. Cooldown: 2 minutes.

    Verse of Vitality - You play a Verse that heals all party and raid members for 183 to 188 hit points. Cooldown: 1 minute.

    Verse of Joy - You play a verse that restores 20 Mana per second, 5 Power per second, 5 Energy per second, or 5 Charge per second. Lasts 15 seconds. Cooldown: 2 minutes.


    Combat Abilities:

    Cadence - You continuously strum your lute that deals 19 Life damage over 4 seconds. Damage increases with Dexterity. Awards 1 combo point. While channeling this ability, you gain an additional combo point per second.

    Power Chord - You play a chord that deals 6 to 7 Life damage. Damage increases with Dexterity. Awards 2 Combo Points.

    Riff - You play a succession of notes that deals 17 to 19 Life Damage. Damage increases with Dexterity. Awards 5 combo points.
    Last edited by hydd; 09-07-2010 at 09:26 AM. Reason: colors were ugly!

  2. #2
    Telaran Xavath's Avatar
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    I always love idea of bard and utility classes. Most of the time, they arent required in a group but extremely useful to have as a filler. I dont yet know much details of each class so I dont know how it will play out, but these skills show bard can do many things , although most arent the best, as expected. It should be a fun class.

    Prophecy

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    Plane Touched Samil's Avatar
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    I hear you, Hydd. I was a little surprised myself at the mechanics of the bard class - a fully bard-specced player (which every raid will probably want) might get a little bored. It looks like the devs may be encouraging would-be bards to spend points in other souls, to get other abilities that award combo points. As it stands, using cadence alone is going to get pretty old.

    But yeah, I was really impressed with the range and power of the bard's buffs too.

    Started with EQ, and currently helping out on the Telarapedia while waiting for Rift!

  4. #4
    Rift Disciple Valderen's Avatar
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    It's hard to say how the class will play at this point.

    It definitly sounds like an EQ1 bard, where you will be twisting songs to maintain a lot of buff up.

    Essentially a skilled bard will manage to keep many codas up at the same time. It seems to me that the interesting part of the bard is not it's attack rotation as much as it's coda twisting. If it ends up anything close to an EQ1 bard, it might end up being extremely fun class to play.

    It might not be a great soloer, but solo you might just use the coda of fury and just DPS.

    The thing is, with the soul system...you're not stuck as a bard all the time if you don't want to. It's also a very unique class, that will definitly bring something to groups and raids. And that's a big plus in my book. The gameplay can be tweaked if it's not fun though. That's stuff we'll see when we get to play it.
    Last edited by Valderen; 09-07-2010 at 11:25 AM.

  5. #5
    Rift Chaser eLdritchZ's Avatar
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    you could also just spec to the top branch and get lots of stuff in another soul...

    after all the class system is about playing around and combining...

    but it is a very awesome sounding bard... now here's hoping he uses a lute... regularly =)

  6. #6
    Soulwalker Ballista's Avatar
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    Sounds sort of horrible to me because of the duration of the codas. I played a kineticist in city of heroes and just having to keep speed boost up on a team of 7 every 2 minutes was a lot of tedious work and the animation for that skill was instant.

    30 second and 60 second duration buffs and perhaps a non instant animation? :I I couldn't handle that, seems boring.

    The longer duration stuff is better :I

  7. #7
    Soulwalker
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    yup boring just like eq2 bards boring .and no drums i didnt see them anywhere .thats wut bards bring with them drums in the fights and they do sounds like boom boom boom here we come

  8. #8
    Plane Touched hydd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eLdritch247 View Post
    you could also just spec to the top branch and get lots of stuff in another soul...

    after all the class system is about playing around and combining...

    but it is a very awesome sounding bard... now here's hoping he uses a lute... regularly =)
    I think you are absolutely right. I'm very much a person who wants to play a game with defined roles and there to be consequences for each choice you make in said game. I suppose Rift is all about being "everything" and I'm more about being my unique role, or maybe perhaps it's just what I'm used to.

    I really need to get a feel of the game before I make further judgments.

  9. #9
    Rift Disciple fangGWJ's Avatar
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    Most of the buffs last for 60 seconds. I can't imagine it being that hard other than tedium to maintain a few buffs at a time.

    A fully speced bard could also be an off healer. There is no cool down for their heal at the end of the tree. Cadence gives one combo point to start and one point every second thereafter for 4 seconds. So that seems to me like they can cast a max group heal every 4 seconds. (I have no idea how it compares to other group heals in Rift.

  10. #10
    Ascendant Kula's Avatar
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    Drums & Horns, heck even flutes make more sense in battle than lutes.

  11. #11
    Ascendant rabb1t's Avatar
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    The only bard I've ever really liked was the Vanguard bard. There it was all about the songs, which you just activated and they ran until you changed songs. It was all about the composition of the song. As you leveled you got more slot types for a song (you could make as many songs as you like) and then you slotted song bits into those slots. It was a lot like a CCG and you rarely met another Bard who had an exact same song as you because there were so many tweaking options.

    I think I'd go insane with a type where you had to stack points then burn the points to run songs and the effect typically lasts 10 seconds. What, when I'm not in combat I can't sing? That just doesn't make much sense, nor does it sound fun to me.
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  12. #12
    Plane Touched hydd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rabb1t View Post
    The only bard I've ever really liked was the Vanguard bard.
    Amen.

    But I'm not too terribly opposed to the semi-short duration buffs. I'm not asking for a complete rewrite of combo points or the way the buffs are given but instead the way the combo points are attained. Having a channeled spell as our primary source of combo points is going to be such a drag.

    Sure, you can pick up another soul like the assassin and lose a few of your final buffs but at least you'll have fun while you play (just don't tell your raid leader!).

  13. #13
    Rift Disciple Torrent's Avatar
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    I wonder if you can play the long duration buffs, ie Anthems/Fanfairs, and then swap out of your bard spec, and have the buffs remain?

    This seems like there'd be a potential for issues here with being able to respec on the fly....

  14. #14
    Rift Disciple Enyeto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kula View Post
    Drums & Horns, heck even flutes make more sense in battle than lutes.
    skin flutes. As for lutes.... rock out da air g'tar mang!


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  15. #15
    Shadowlander Painik's Avatar
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    I hope that the Bard will be the best buffer class in the game. He buffing armor, resisnatces, regen and max health/mana/combat points, speed, attack power and can use healing songs. I think if you want to be the best buffer ( all points in bard tree ), you will have a small dps, but if you want to be a buffer + dps you have spend a couple of points on two or three souls. Sounds fair for me.
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