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Thread: Class Uniqueness

  1. #1
    Plane Walker Rawr's Avatar
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    Default Class Uniqueness

    I enjoy playing all types of class roles. I enjoy playing a class that has 1 or 2 unique abilities or traits not found in other classes even more.
    Nothing frustrates me more than MMOs that make 2-3 classes that are exactly the same. Or make certain classes useless, because the abilities they bring to a raid/group can be performed better by other classes.
    There has to be a reason/need to involve every class, but at the same time not relying heavily on said class to complete goals.
    Its a tricky balance and I hope Trion Worlds is aware of this potential problem.

    Who can name some of the classes that became obsolete or underpowered in recent games?

  2. #2
    Champion of Telara Shagroth's Avatar
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    Yay disucssion!

    First off my good man/woman:

    There are only 4 classes in Rift and to classic fashion do as they're told for the most part. Warrior tanks, Rogue rogues, Mage AOE/DD/CC, and Cleric heals.

    There are small variations on this but for the most part they're not going to be major (opinion).

    As far as OP and UP classes:

    The Everquest Ranger comes to mind. I only saw about 20 in all my days on Cazic Thule. I never understood them because as I remember reading they were you know RANGERS they shot arrows and had druid like ability but in game they really never shot arrows as the mechanic was broken and they were like sad warriors or something. I just remember the poo colored armor they all wore.

    The Earth Wizard in DAoC - I remember the Fire Wizards were Dmg machines and the Ice Wizard had AoE that could take out legions but the little Earth Wizzies just rooted stuff... I mean in the game where CC was pretty much all about Minstrels (Albion side folks) these guys didn't do much of anything.

    Age of Conan Defiler - A mock up of a Shadow Knight these guys were supposed to be tanks with death dealing powers but they really didn't tank well nor DoT well.

    OP? I can't think of many overpowered classes only because the idea of an overpowered class is way more preference than reality. I'm sure that any class could've been overpowered.

    In my journeys I hated Midgard Warriors as a Albion Wizard. I could two shot every class in the game PVP wise but when one of these dude popped up it took like 60000000 DDs to chip away at them. I remembered asking other wizards about it and they just would say, "Yeah if you see a troll with a battle axe just get to the back of the zerg and pray the Armsman gets to him first."

    But they weren't overpowered I just hated them.

    Maybe the Jedi in SWG but I mean perma-death took care of those concerns and they just weren't implemented all that well - being a secret calling with the internet around just isn't all that smart.
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  3. #3
    Soulwalker Whitedove's Avatar
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    I love when classes have such unique skills like no other as well. Enchanters Clarity in EQ and Shamans Shrink were both awesome.
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    Champion of Telara Shagroth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whitedove View Post
    I love when classes have such unique skills like no other as well. Enchanters Clarity in EQ and Shamans Shrink were both awesome.
    Yeah I liked the Shrink. I always enjoy when classes get fun spells and whatnot.

    I suppose going forward the Chanter in EQ was a bit overpowered and underpowered in one.

    While Chanters certainly lakced fire power they were CC plain and simple. Without them you couldn't raid or group to the degree that everyone truly wanted to. With them, you were a machine - from Clarity to Mez they made running dungeons eeeeezzzzzz. They may have been one weak class but they were the must have for Everquest grouping.
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    Soulwalker
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    While Chanters certainly lakced fire power they were CC plain and simple. Without them you couldn't raid or group to the degree that everyone truly wanted to. With them, you were a machine - from Clarity to Mez they made running dungeons eeeeezzzzzz. They may have been one weak class but they were the must have for Everquest grouping.
    Until PoP arrived and enchanters got bored and left the game.

    I think classes have to have unique habilities, but if they become a must have in any group something is wrong. I remember the long time awaiting for a healer or a chanter in eq, ten years ago (omg ten years!) was ok but nowadays it sucks. This may be a key feature in class design and I have seen many games with this problem. Even WoW is making a review of the unique class abilities to avoid class dependency.

  6. #6
    Soulwalker
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    BTW abilities like srink or wolf form are always welcomed. All of us have spent hours just runing around srinked or in wolf form
    I'm sorry english is my third languaje so many times its hard to understand me.

  7. #7
    Plane Touched hydd's Avatar
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    Rogue in Vanguard: Saga of Heroes. They were extremely potent pre-nerf but once they received the nerf that restricted their weapon types they didn't add enough dps to a raid to really keep around. Not too mention their level 50+ abilities are minor upgrades and one of them is even a downgrade.

    I still have a feeling a well played Rogue could match up dps with me (and I'm a silly bard) but I've never seen a rogue parse higher than 13k post nerf. I could have been playing with some sub-par rogues but from what I have seen they're obsolete.

    If any rogues in my guild just read this I was just kidding

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    Shadowlander Painik's Avatar
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    I think that in Rift it is not possible to make a good class balance. I see now about 32 souls, each with its own tree ( and there will be more ). We can use three souls at once, so we have A LOT of options to create a class. It cannot be balanced, but I think each soul will have a lot of good unique skills and I hope that every combination will be needed for group and raid.

    Important is that it will split into four main archetypes. So if you see a warrior, you need him for tanking, if you see a healer, you need him for healing and no matter is for me which soul he has, if he tanking or healing good.
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    Soulwalker Invison's Avatar
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    There is no such thing as Class Balance, the term itself is just a use for "Oh I just got my *** kicked in PvP so that must mean that the class that killed me is OP". If your good at your class I'm sure it will be fine. A mage should never be able to take a Rogue of equal skill, but if you suck then that doesn't mean the Mage is OP it means you aren't as skilled.

    As far as Class Uniqueness this game seems to offer more than any other MMO out there besides COH/COV, if you can consider that a game worth mentioning. I wouldn't worry about it, your what makes your character unique, your decisions. There will be other people speced the same as you once gear grinders find the perfect combos.

  10. #10
    Sword of Telara Sylvrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by C3Name View Post
    There is no such thing as Class Balance, the term itself is just a use for "Oh I just got my *** kicked in PvP so that must mean that the class that killed me is OP". If your good at your class I'm sure it will be fine. A mage should never be able to take a Rogue of equal skill, but if you suck then that doesn't mean the Mage is OP it means you aren't as skilled.

    As far as Class Uniqueness this game seems to offer more than any other MMO out there besides COH/COV, if you can consider that a game worth mentioning. I wouldn't worry about it, your what makes your character unique, your decisions. There will be other people speced the same as you once gear grinders find the perfect combos.
    ^^ What he said. I loved what Russ Brown said in his Podcast interview video after making a combo on the fly. "Will this work? I really don't know. Go play with it and see if it works for you." That is what we will all be doing. What works for one person may not work at all for another person. It will depend largely on how you like to play.
    Those who guard nature, guard life itself. Those who defile nature bring death and destruction upon us all.

  11. #11
    Soulwalker
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    unique classes will be a big thing.. who wants everyone to be exactually the same ?? Thats why we choose classes

  12. #12
    Rift Disciple
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    I think with all the character combinations that will be floating around, uniqueness wont be a problem. I just hope its to the point that in pvp your not really sure what you going up against.

    IB

  13. #13
    Soulwalker
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    What I hate most is within a few months cookie-cutter builds will emerge, having 3 souls makes it more complex but the bottom line is that there will be certain things groups expect from a warrior - mage - healer- and rogue and everyone is going to be looking for that "ideal" build that makes you the best at the task - so if you try to make yourself unique you end up pigeon holing yourself and limiting your usefulness to groups etc.

    I hope I am wrong, but every game I have played that tries to add variety to classes ends up with the same old cliche' builds.

    It happens even in games like Mortal Online, which is ment to be a sandbox with only the skills you choose to develop (with a limit) and still MIN/MAX builds emerge.

  14. #14
    Shadowlander
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    I loved Levitate. I remember the first time someone put it on me. When the spell wore off I was running to Karnors Castle......Splat lol

  15. #15
    Champion of Telara Shagroth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bosco View Post
    What I hate most is within a few months cookie-cutter builds will emerge, having 3 souls makes it more complex but the bottom line is that there will be certain things groups expect from a warrior - mage - healer- and rogue and everyone is going to be looking for that "ideal" build that makes you the best at the task - so if you try to make yourself unique you end up pigeon holing yourself and limiting your usefulness to groups etc.

    I hope I am wrong, but every game I have played that tries to add variety to classes ends up with the same old cliche' builds.

    It happens even in games like Mortal Online, which is ment to be a sandbox with only the skills you choose to develop (with a limit) and still MIN/MAX builds emerge.
    I enjoyed reading this you make some good points with valid fears. The biggest need for unique builds in this game is making EVERY build a group/raid success - that will fall heavily on Trion to either accomplish or fail at - if they fail game over for the soul system because no one will want to raid with a cleric that is "spec'd" wrong and they'll either have to respec/rebuild or just not get to enjoy the social aspect of the game. I'm with you on this one, I recall this happening very fast in DAoC I was a wizard but if I didn't go fire I was useless to zerg groups and if I wasn't fire they'd take ice but still ***** - Earth was the "You can't be an Earth Wizard" role - there were like none even though their powers were cool.
    Shagroth, GM of Myth

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