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Thread: Chloromancer vs. Cleric as a main healer (in both PvP and PvE)

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    Soulwalker
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    Question Chloromancer vs. Cleric as a main healer (in both PvP and PvE)

    In just about every MMO I play, I end up playing a healer. In general, I like healers that are a bit more nuanced than "press button to make the green bars go up." My favorite class in any MMO was a protection monk in Guild Wars. The Bloodmage from Vanguard is another great one. With this in mind, I thought the Chloromancer might be a good fit. I am concerned, however, that the Chloromancer won't stand up as a main healer in endgame PvE and PvP content. From what I've heard, it does just fine as a main healer in the content that we've seen so far (I haven't had much time to put into the betas personally, so I haven't reached the higher levels).

    Has there been any official indication that the developers intend to make the Chloromancer endgame viable as a main healer in PvP and PvE, or is it intended to be more of a support healer? How does it compare to Cleric healers? Also, are there any Cleric souls that are more complex than your standard heals and HoTs? Thanks in advance for the help. Can't wait for Beta 5!

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    Shield of Telara Arieste's Avatar
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    There is like a massive thread called "Chlromancer vs. Cleric" already that delves into this.

    To answer your question in short: yes, chloromancer is a full-time healer.
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    I would not recommend you pick a calling based on a single soul. If you see yourself primarily as a healer you should probably go cleric, that way you can have multiple ways of healing with different build options for different types of healer suited for different situations. Mages can heal, in one single specific way. Does it work? Sure does, would be pointless otherwise. Is it the best solution to every healing situation? No. Where the mage keeps chloromancing away, the cleric switches to a better build for the job at hand.

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    Prophet of Telara
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    Aye. If you really like healers, then choosing Mage as your Calling would be counter-productive.

    But if you were going to be making two characters, I'd go for Mage as your second one and try out some Chloro builds. Chloro is great fun to play.

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    Thanks for the responses, guys, and sorry I missed the other thread on this topic. I guess this isn't a terribly important decision, as I'm a major altoholic anyway. Cleric and mage (and probably warrior and rogue) it is!

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    Chloromancer is a decent healer. But do not kid yourself. Cleric IS a better healer over all. Chloromancer have to "set" up they're heals. Ground targeting, can only heal 1 person really well, alot of ae ticking heals. A chloromancer is not not the type of healer that heals through an assist train, a cleric is.

    Chloromancer can be a good 2endary healer tho, and can heal most things decently.

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    Shield of Telara Arieste's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drack View Post
    Chloromancer is a decent healer. But do not kid yourself. Cleric IS a better healer over all.
    This is totally unfoudned BS. A chloromancer is a full-time main healer if properly specced and played. Which healer is better is a redundant discussion as different healers will ultimately be better for different things.

    He is correct in that a chloro heals a single tank much better than multiple tanks, but given that most groups tend to have a single tank, this isn't a huge issue.

    All healers have strengths and weaknesses. Chloro is possibly the strongest healer at healing a single tank, weakest at healing multiple tanks and very strong at healing a group or raid.
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    General of Telara Sheilina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arieste View Post
    Chloro is possibly the strongest healer at healing a single tank
    While I agree that Chloromancer is a great healer and can very well stand his own, with all due respect, I disagree with this.
    A Purifier will most definitely outmatch a Chloromancer when it comes to Single target healing not only for its overall toolset but also because he will get increase in healing abilities from passives of two other healing souls.
    Just combine the Purifier Wards, with all the stackable hots on a single target from Warden and you see what I mean.

    While mage builds also obviously have passives that increase damage output and thus healing, the chloromancer still doesn't have the versatility and flexibility of a full cleric healing build and on top also has to make sure he doesn't get resisted during the important situations.
    Also, comparing a single soul with another single soul in a game that is based upon builds it not a good base for discussion in my opinion If anything you have to compare builds with each-other.

    I am not saying it's not possible, in fact I am sure a good player can do amazing things with a Chloromancer but saying it's the best soul for single tank healing is a bit much.
    Last edited by Sheilina; 01-19-2011 at 07:41 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheilina View Post
    While I agree that Chloromancer is a great healer and can very well stand his own, with all due respect, I disagree with this.
    A Purifier will most definitely outmatch a Chloromancer when it comes to Single target healing not only for its overall toolset but also because he will get increase in healing abilities from passives of two other healing souls.
    Just combine the Purifier Wards, with all the stackable hots on a single target from Warden and you see what I mean.

    While mage builds also obviously have passives that increase damage output and thus healing, and spells that increase tank HP and resistances and reduce incoming damage and provide wards and increase heal amount and decrease heal cast times and provide mana and.. and..and..

    I am not saying it's not possible, in fact I am sure a good player can do amazing things with a Chloromancer but saying it's the best soul for single tank healing is a bit much.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheilina View Post
    Also, comparing a single soul with another single soul in a game that is based upon builds it not a good base for discussion in my opinion
    This right here. One on one soul means nothing. It's all about the build.

    Combined properly with other souls, the chloro is EXTREMELY powerful, bringing huge heals (including a complete heal), casting those heals faster than most classes, bringing wards, bringing unlimited mana, HP buffs, cc, debuffs, etc.

    Ultimately, we'll have to wait and see, but so far there is absolutely nothing in-game to indicate that chloro is a substandard healer other than people who suck playing the class poorly and then posting that it's not a real healer.
    Last edited by Arieste; 01-19-2011 at 07:47 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arieste View Post
    This is totally unfoudned BS. A chloromancer is a full-time main healer if properly specced and played. Which healer is better is a redundant discussion as different healers will ultimately be better for different things.

    He is correct in that a chloro heals a single tank much better than multiple tanks, but given that most groups tend to have a single tank, this isn't a huge issue.

    All healers have strengths and weaknesses. Chloro is possibly the strongest healer at healing a single tank, weakest at healing multiple tanks and very strong at healing a group or raid.
    What would a proper spec be then?

    Is 44/6/16 ChloroLockEle any good?

    My logic behind Lock and Ele as subsouls is because of the lifetap(for infinite mana, as I've read on this forum) from Lock and the crit talents in Ele(Tempest and Biting Cold) which translates into more damage and thus more healing.

    I'm actually not in beta, so I am kind of clueless, but I think it somehow does make sense using my common sense and general MMO knowledge.

    I AM thinking in a purely PvE situation, so I think I won't need any CC or anti-CC from any particular other mage souls. With both shields and Elementalist's sacrifice and the warlock's life drain to keep me alive along with Chloro heals.

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    Ascendant Vihar's Avatar
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    Chloro can match a Cleric class healer pretty well, except in situations where multiple party members are in trouble, such as in a bad pull...or if the tank dies or disconnects, for example. In that case there is little a Chloro can do, whereas something like a Sentinel may pull the party through the mess.

    For Chloromancer, most people take Warlock, because it gives you a health for mana regeneration that can be used in combat. The Elementalist gives you a mana regen, but only out of combat.

    The problem arises with certain bosses in game...and sometimes Invasion Events. That is where you will need the in combat mana skill.

    Other than that, 95% of the time the Elementalist mana skill will be fine.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arieste View Post

    Ultimately, we'll have to wait and see, but so far there is absolutely nothing in-game to indicate that chloro is a substandard healer other than people who suck playing the class poorly and then posting that it's not a real healer.
    I agree with this but the discussion was not about if Chloromancer is a substandard healer but the claim that he is the best single target healer. Which I very much doubt (I have played a Chloromancer and know the mage trees, obviously not as in detail as the cleric trees though).

    But we really just have to wait and see

    edit: I don't seem to be able to make one freaking post without typos!
    Last edited by Sheilina; 01-19-2011 at 08:01 AM.
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    Chloromancer have to "set" up they're heals. Ground targeting, can only heal 1 person really well, alot of ae ticking heals. A chloromancer is not not the type of healer that heals through an assist train, a cleric is.
    I'm not quite sure what is meant here. By "set up" do you mean casting radiant spores on the target? Which is AoE when well specced? Or do you mean that Chloros heal by using damage attacks? But both mean that the Chloro deals damage at the same time as healing and don't have to sacrifice one or other side doesn't it?

    I'm also not sure what is meant by Ground Targeting. When I played Chloro in beta, I targeted through the tank or via the mob, using cast on target's target on the whole. AoE healing is by area around the Chloro - and isn't restricted in the number of people it can heal (as quite a lot of cleric abilities are). You get to heal every target of the mob via spores too, which is in itself a sort of AoE heal.

    The limitations of the Chloro are much more, that against mobs which resist strongly, lifegiving veil is less effective. Chloros do need to be damaging their target in order to get the best Tank healing - they still have some healing that will continue, and can supplement this with extra shielding, debuffs, CC and heals from secondary souls.

    Chloros certainly heal instances as main healer without problems. Chloros really shine in random rift/invasion content, where raid organisation is low, there are large numbers of players vs relatively uncontrolled mobs and their AoE and reactive heals really shine. Indeed, because of not having limitations on the number of players their AoEs and reactives heal, they may well be better than clerics in that environment.

    But for organised Raids/Rifts/Invasions I think Clerics will always be best. And that's pretty much as it should be, isn't it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raptorg View Post
    What would a proper spec be then?

    Is 44/6/16 ChloroLockEle any good?

    My logic behind Lock and Ele as subsouls is because of the lifetap(for infinite mana, as I've read on this forum) from Lock and the crit talents in Ele(Tempest and Biting Cold) which translates into more damage and thus more healing.

    I'm actually not in beta, so I am kind of clueless, but I think it somehow does make sense using my common sense and general MMO knowledge.

    I AM thinking in a purely PvE situation, so I think I won't need any CC or anti-CC from any particular other mage souls. With both shields and Elementalist's sacrifice and the warlock's life drain to keep me alive along with Chloro heals.
    I think the ward given by Archon is going to be a huge tool once one invests enough points to increase it to a decent amount. Archon also gives group HP buff as well as casting time reduction. Warlock on the other hand also has cast time reduction (proc), unlimited mana and some good buffs for heals. I think only longterm testing will determine which is best.
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    General of Telara Sheilina's Avatar
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    I just mentioned that in another thread, Archon/Chloromancer is going to make for an amazing support/healer build setup.
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