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Thread: Melee rogues are capable (Assassin PvP video from beta #4)

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    Ascendant Anxient's Avatar
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    Default Melee rogues are capable (Assassin PvP video from beta #4)

    In another thread somebody stated:

    Quote Originally Posted by Zerixar View Post
    I've said it before and I'll say it again and again until they're properly looked at (squeaky wheel gets the grease approach). Melee rogues are beyond broken.

    Combat in pvp as a melee rogue boils down to doing a stun starter that lasts 4 seconds, some builders and a finisher that maybe drop a target to 2/3rds health if you're lucky, maybe another 4 second stun if you've specced that far into the assassin tree, some energy regen, maybe a builder, maybe a finisher. When all is said and done after the cc is expended and all their cool downs are blown, usually the enemy is at about half health and destroys them in a few hits or kites them to their doom. Melee rogues just don't have the dps output to do much of anything that any other class can't do way better. Sure they have stealth, but with their current weakness about all its good for is ninja-ing flags since getting the jump on someone doesnt really give any advantage when they immediately fizzle out on damage.
    I finally have prepared my response to this. My melee PvP video from beta #4 is ready. Everybody is entitled to their opinion but I think that quote is full of exaggeration. I don't think we have it as easy as some other classes but we aren't "beyond broken" by any means.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnSk68-2fcI
    Be sure to watch it in HD!

    To answer some of the questions and statements in this thread:

    1/ Nobody is AFK. I open with a stun, apply combo points and a snare during that stun and then I stun them again....by the time this sequence is over you will notice them then try to get away. Nobody is AFK...it is called an effective opening sequence. When somebody is truly AFK in this game they gain the <AFK> attachment to their name. Nobody in this video shows this attached to their name. Mostly the players are stopped because I stalked them for sometimes up to two minutes waiting for them to stop for a second so I could get into range and incapacitate them. Do you really want to watch a video where I follow somebody for an extended period of time stalking my prey until they finally stop for just a second so I can get in melee range? The fact that they react instantly once my stuns are over should make it obvious they were not AFK. Sure they might have pulled up the map for one second or started reading their quests but that is far from AFK. They are on a PvP server in the open world! That does not make them PvErs who were entirely unprepared. They rolled on a PvP server with Open World PvP for a reason. Stopping for one second to read your map or re-read a quest objective is dropping your guard for a second. You will have to either find a secure location to do so or risk being jumped in the open with your pants down.

    2/ 90% of the fights are against opponents equal level or higher level then me. The video is 10 minutes long though so YES there is some filler where I kill lowbies or gank but that was to reaffirm the "FILTHY DIRTY" part. However, MOST of the video is actually equal level fights or they are higher level then me.

    3/ I don't click or keyboard turn. If you watch on youtube in high definition you can see that ALL of my skills are keybound to hotkeys. Also, I use a precision laser mouse for turning. I would like to see a keyboard turner with the mobility I show while camera shifting in this video.

    4/ My gear is at the end of the video. I was still using a blue level 17 dagger even up to level 26 and the rest is just quest greens that were accessible to anyone. There is nothing to write home about in regards to my gear. I didn't spend my limited beta time farming instances or getting rep for gear...I spent my time mostly PvPing. I only had a total of about 8-10 hours of playtime during beta #4 so I actually fell behind most players in regards to gear due to that.

    5/ I didn't include many deaths because as you can see I filled a 10 minute video of fights that I won. Fact is, I killed a lot & I died a lot. This is the way PvP goes. However, it was hard squeezing in all of that footage into 10 minutes. I didn't want to waste a few of those minutes showing fights I lost. I could comprise another full 10 minutes of footage showing where I died a lot and ganked even lower level players while they were fighting mobs but how entertaining would that be? This video was meant to show what rogues are capable of and that we can succeed if played properly. I am not saying rogues are entirely fine...but we are not as bad off as some would say. The people saying melee rogues are "beyond broken" are exaggerating.

    6/ Yes it takes my rogue a long time to kill the heavy armor wearing classes in my video. In no other game could a rogue pop out on a heavy armor wearing class and kill them in 10 seconds either. Those are drawn out fights much like in this game. In most cases I do actually kill the clothies relatively fast, minus the ones that teleport away, root, etc. Just like any other game though, you have to continue applying pressure and stay in melee range to finish that job. Also, this warrior video where the guy destroys everything in sight is shown from a level 27 guild leaders perspective. The guild Addiction has been PvPing for years together and is known to have been getting world firsts in many MMO's that it plays. The Warrior in the video was undoubtedly geared to the teeth in full blues and possibly some purples, mix that with his experience as a PvPer in a team setting that has been working together for years and you have total chaos (respect to them as a unit & as individual PvPers!). My gear is seriously laughable to that Warrior's gear so in reference to damage numbers YES the difference is obvious but if you look at the facts, the answers as to why those numbers are different are also obvious.

    Video Totals:
    -9 fights against higher level opponents.
    -5 fights against equal level opponents.
    -6 fights against lower level opponents. (two of those are only one level lower then me, one of those fights is against four opponents)
    Last edited by Anxient; 01-19-2011 at 05:54 AM.

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    Prophet of Telara Mantiss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anxient View Post
    In another thread somebody stated:



    I finally have prepared my response to this. My melee PvP video from beta #4 is ready. Everybody is entitled to their opinion but I think that quote is full of exaggeration. I don't think we have it as easy as some other classes but we aren't "beyond broken" by any means.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnSk68-2fcI
    Be sure to watch it in HD!
    Nice video and you used a good variety or classes in there. Along with different PvP environments, albiet most were 1v1. Perhaps I missed it, but you were an Assassin/Riftstalker and what else?

    I play my Rogue in PvP as a Nightblade/Riftstalker/BD with excellent results as well. So I am thrilled that someone has the build, talent and willingness to create a video like this. My only request for a future video would be some group PvP, which I believe we do well.

    Thanks again!
    The mind of a perfect man is like a mirror. It grasps nothing. It expects nothing. It reflects but does not hold. Therefore, the perfect man can act without effort.
    New battle theme for the awesome racial changes: Big bouncing Bhami, bravely bounding by bizarre beasts, before battle begins.


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    Telaran settledown's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anxient View Post
    In another thread somebody stated:



    I finally have prepared my response to this. My melee PvP video from beta #4 is ready. Everybody is entitled to their opinion but I think that quote is full of exaggeration. I don't think we have it as easy as some other classes but we aren't "beyond broken" by any means.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnSk68-2fcI
    Be sure to watch it in HD!
    Nice video. Good music and mostly fighting equal to higher levels. Could you put together a soul planner of your build?

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    Plane Touched Korncob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mantiss View Post
    Nice video and you used a good variety or classes in there. Along with different PvP environments, albiet most were 1v1. Perhaps I missed it, but you were an Assassin/Riftstalker and what else?

    I play my Rogue in PvP as a Nightblade/Riftstalker/BD with excellent results as well. So I am thrilled that someone has the build, talent and willingness to create a video like this. My only request for a future video would be some group PvP, which I believe we do well.

    Thanks again!
    He used assassin riftstalker BD. That's the problem with most people who go assassin they usually grab assassin nightblade and sabateur or something which gives them no survivability whatsoever and no energy regen abilities and no chasing abilities. You almost cannot mix nightblade and assassin because they don't give each other anything, they are both completely seperate souls because they are basically the same just one is AOE with arcane magic and the other uses backstabs and a bit of water damage.

    Xfire/steam : Korncob

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    Telaran
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    Hm killing unskilled ppl out of stealth with you evertime had the first hit... Not that great and some nice playing with your foes. But really good fights aren't there and the ppl play like they never heard about rogue classes. So im realy sorry if this is all you want to kill some noobish players that are playing like first class gimps and didn't stand a chance....

    The Vid were altough cutsence and the intresting part is a whole pvp scenario all trough, with all the kills, deaths and how it works out without one cutscene.

    Just my opinion, but if that vid count and maekes the life of rogues hard im happy with it ^^.

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    Prophet of Telara Mantiss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karnaga View Post
    Hm killing unskilled ppl out of stealth with you evertime had the first hit... Not that great and some nice playing with your foes. But really good fights aren't there and the ppl play like they never heard about rogue classes. So im realy sorry if this is all you want to kill some noobish players that are playing like first class gimps and didn't stand a chance....

    The Vid were altough cutsence and the intresting part is a whole pvp scenario all trough, with all the kills, deaths and how it works out without one cutscene.

    Just my opinion, but if that vid count and maekes the life of rogues hard im happy with it ^^.
    1. Read through the Assassin skills
    2. Read through the BD and Riftstalker skills
    3. Watch how those skills were applied in the video
    4. Notice the openers, stuns, etc whcih kept those being killed from reacting as well as they could
    5. Notice that a few players do react well and even kite but are eventually overcome through skill
    6. Profit
    The mind of a perfect man is like a mirror. It grasps nothing. It expects nothing. It reflects but does not hold. Therefore, the perfect man can act without effort.
    New battle theme for the awesome racial changes: Big bouncing Bhami, bravely bounding by bizarre beasts, before battle begins.


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    Ascendant Anxient's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mantiss View Post
    1. Read through the Assassin skills
    2. Read through the BD and Riftstalker skills
    3. Watch how those skills were applied in the video
    4. Notice the openers, stuns, etc whcih kept those being killed from reacting as well as they could
    5. Notice that a few players do react well and even kite but are eventually overcome through skill
    6. Profit
    Thank you sir!

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    Rift Chaser Khrux's Avatar
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    Great video, imagine what rogues will be capable of when Trion tweak energy regen

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    Ascendant Anxient's Avatar
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    What really bothers me is when somebody from the community spends an obscene amount of time gathering footage, compiling & rendering footage to have people rate all of the effort a 1 out of 5 stars.

    Silly. Reserve the 1 for 5 stars for gold selling posts. Rate fairly or don't rate at all.

    I made this video to share my experiences with the community. Rating the thread 1/5 is spiteful & unnecessary.

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    Prophet of Telara Musufasa101's Avatar
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    Decent video, you got one of my guildies. I agree that rogues played right are really strong and that people crying to fix rogues don't know what they are doing.

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    Telaran
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    I Want to give you some major props for putting this video together, and to give you the best complement that I know to give....

    you have given me pause to perhaps take another look at my melee Rogue. I got him only up to lvl 14, and was getting to feel he was a little lack-luster and came to the forums to get some inspiration (wrong move right?) and ofc it was all doom and gloom.

    I think I will play with him a bit more in the next beta... .thanks for the inspiration I was looking for!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Musufasa101 View Post
    Decent video, you got one of my guildies. I agree that rogues played right are really strong and that people crying to fix rogues don't know what they are doing.
    Thanks a lot. Appreciate the comment.


    Quote Originally Posted by sholagar19 View Post
    I Want to give you some major props for putting this video together, and to give you the best complement that I know to give....

    you have given me pause to perhaps take another look at my melee Rogue. I got him only up to lvl 14, and was getting to feel he was a little lack-luster and came to the forums to get some inspiration (wrong move right?) and ofc it was all doom and gloom.

    I think I will play with him a bit more in the next beta... .thanks for the inspiration I was looking for!!
    Really glad to have inspired you. This is why I put the time into this video. Definitely give your melee rogue another shot & play around a bit with soul talent selection, etc. They are quite a lot of fun!

  13. #13
    Ascendant
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anxient View Post
    What really bothers me is when somebody from the community spends an obscene amount of time gathering footage, compiling & rendering footage to have people rate all of the effort a 1 out of 5 stars.

    Silly. Reserve the 1 for 5 stars for gold selling posts. Rate fairly or don't rate at all.

    I made this video to share my experiences with the community. Rating the thread 1/5 is spiteful & unnecessary.
    All the vids are entertaining but they are highlight reels how is a highlight reel gonna show the actual functionality of the class. i dont care that your baddie opponents died i care that your daamge was pathetic and your time to kill was long enough for a person to be born get married have kids then die.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mantiss View Post
    1. Read through the Assassin skills
    2. Read through the BD and Riftstalker skills
    3. Watch how those skills were applied in the video
    4. Notice the openers, stuns, etc whcih kept those being killed from reacting as well as they could
    5. Notice that a few players do react well and even kite but are eventually overcome through skill
    6. Profit
    ^ This. This video was great for showing the abilities of stealth and rogue melee. I can honestly say that all the complaining about the rogue melee seems to be from people who think rogues should destroy people very fast without much work.

    I am very happy with the outcome of these fights in this video. It showed a rogue player with skill and a lot of teh fights he was acutally close to death but won. Which means the rogue rocks but is not insanely OP.


    Too many people think stealth + start of the fight should mean they always win without any challenge.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jaym7018 View Post
    All the vids are entertaining but they are highlight reels how is a highlight reel gonna show the actual functionality of the class. i dont care that your baddie opponents died i care that your daamge was pathetic and your time to kill was long enough for a person to be born get married have kids then die.
    ^ This response shows the ignorant mentality of the common rogue class player.. ZOMG DPS i keels all without any effortz.

    Its about time the stealth class requires skill and the target has a chance to put up a fight. From what I see. The rogue is just as strong as anyone else, with the skills shown by the player in this video. Rogue still rocks but it takes more then 2 buttons = insta kill

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