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Thread: The New Most Over Powered Thing in Rift 1.6

  1. #1
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    Default The New Most Over Powered Thing in Rift 1.6

    The more I play with this 38 Warlock / 25 Pyromancer / 3 Archmage the more I realize just how over powered Spark is, which reduces your GCD by 0.5 seconds.

    http://www.dissb.com/spark-the-new-m...ng-in-rift-1-6
    Dissb's Blog: Tactics, Tips, Tricks and Strategeis for Rift
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  2. #2
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    can't call it overpowered. It just means that instants actually have a higher priority over cast time spells now, something that should have always been the case.
    Last edited by TheRealKillian; 12-07-2011 at 11:07 AM.
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    Plane Touched Delillo's Avatar
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    I know its overpowered on you Dissb!

    This was one of those changes when I first saw it that just on its face screamed OP. Yes you have to put together a build that takes advantage of it, but instant cast spells were already the main way to go in PvP and this just made them all..... MUCH MUCH BETTER.

    With Rogues, you have the entire class balanced around that 1 sec GCD. Not the case with mages.

    So sure put 5/5 points into "BETTER".

    The fix would probably be to have stat contributions scale based on the 1 sec cool down compared to the 1.5 sec cooldown. So when you spec spark you actually suffer a damage decrease on a per spell basis.

    Rift already penalizes spells with a cast time too much already. Making insta-cast spells better than they already are is a move in the wrong direction... Or rather its a move that smart players will take advantage of.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delillo View Post
    I know its overpowered on you Dissb!

    This was one of those changes when I first saw it that just on its face screamed OP. Yes you have to put together a build that takes advantage of it, but instant cast spells were already the main way to go in PvP and this just made them all..... MUCH MUCH BETTER.

    With Rogues, you have the entire class balanced around that 1 sec GCD. Not the case with mages.

    So sure put 5/5 points into "BETTER".

    The fix would probably be to have stat contributions scale based on the 1 sec cool down compared to the 1.5 sec cooldown. So when you spec spark you actually suffer a damage decrease on a per spell basis.

    Rift already penalizes spells with a cast time too much already. Making insta-cast spells better than they already are is a move in the wrong direction... Or rather its a move that smart players will take advantage of.
    I wouldn't call rogues balanced, let alone around 1 second GCD. That's the intent, yet does not work in practice. Energy starvation will raise your effective GCD over 1 second, whereas with Spark, mana will be what effects it.

    Charge is internal to the Mage, pacts (etc) are internal to the warrior, combo points are external to the rogue and target based.

    That causes an issue too. Pretty sure cleric pacts or whatever they are called are internal to the cleric as well, not their target.

    3 out of 4 internal, 1 external. Ability to lower GCD down to 1 second, with an internal mechanic > 1 second GCD with an external mechanic.

    Just sayin'.

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    You can't compare to other classes mechanics at all. Spark was simply used to make several instant abilities actually useful when they were useless before. Rather than buff a lot of spells they gave us spark, which had the added benefit for the devs of requiring a lot of points in Pyro to get it. This avoided the worry about non pyro specs using it.

    You guys are over thinking this. What matters is the base damage and frequency of the instants we can now cast with spark. Without taking that into account comparing with other classes is meaningless. Most of our instants are unstackable dots or have a long CD which replaces charges as a limiter for instance.

    Spark in itself is absolutely fine. It MAY have revealed other abilities to be overpowered but as few seem to have moved onto that discussion I do not know.
    Last edited by Zartanic; 12-08-2011 at 04:55 AM.

  6. #6
    Sword of Telara utterchaos's Avatar
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    Dots at release were a joke before and most people didn't even dispel them. Now they aren't. Draining bolt,dark fury, and flame bolt (instants) all have cooldowns so its not spamable. Countdown has a long tick time before dmg. Before most mages had to be chloro/lock in pugs etc. Spark gave back the ability to be a full dps spec instead hybrid dps/healer in most cases.
    There are counters to 1/2 sec cast times...stuns/silences/cc

    What i was hoping they would do is make dots ramp up in damage the longer they stayed on the target. Punish someone for not dispeling them off. And make base nukes 2 second casts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by utterchaos View Post
    Dots at release were a joke before and most people didn't even dispel them. Now they aren't. Draining bolt,dark fury, and flame bolt (instants) all have cooldowns so its not spamable. Countdown has a long tick time before dmg. Before most mages had to be chloro/lock in pugs etc. Spark gave back the ability to be a full dps spec instead hybrid dps/healer in most cases.
    There are counters to 1/2 sec cast times...stuns/silences/cc

    What i was hoping they would do is make dots ramp up in damage the longer they stayed on the target. Punish someone for not dispeling them off. And make base nukes 2 second casts.
    Gee, wish rogues had a cleanse.


    The point is, they haphazardly threw a GCD reduction on a class with essentially a non GCD restricting energy pool (mana) and didn't tone down damage. Rogues are balanced around a 1sec GCD, mages are not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowprison View Post
    Gee, wish rogues had a cleanse.


    The point is, they haphazardly threw a GCD reduction on a class with essentially a non GCD restricting energy pool (mana) and didn't tone down damage. Rogues are balanced around a 1sec GCD, mages are not.
    If you bothered to read the posts here you will see what other limits Mages have which heavily restrict dots and instants. There is more than one way to kill a cat. Stop comparing like with like it does not work.
    Last edited by Zartanic; 12-08-2011 at 06:11 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zartanic View Post
    If you bothered to read the posts here you will see what other limits Mages have which heavily restrict dots and instants. There is more than one way to kill a cat. Stop comparing like with like it does not work.
    why should an instant cast have a higher priority than an casttime cast ?
    No restriction for an 1 sec gcd is just not right.

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    RIFT Guide Writer Ninjahax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dissb View Post
    The more I play with this 38 Warlock / 25 Pyromancer / 3 Archmage the more I realize just how over powered Spark is, which reduces your GCD by 0.5 seconds.

    http://www.dissb.com/spark-the-new-m...ng-in-rift-1-6
    Wait, I thought you quit. Are you back?

  11. #11
    Ascendant Aguni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowprison View Post
    Gee, wish rogues had a cleanse.


    The point is, they haphazardly threw a GCD reduction on a class with essentially a non GCD restricting energy pool (mana) and didn't tone down damage. Rogues are balanced around a 1sec GCD, mages are not.
    Did you even read what you stated?
    You do realize that lowering the base damage of what, everything, would have defeated the purpose of spark's creation.

    Hey guys, we bumped your DPS with spark but we lowered your DPS to compensate. So yeah, waste those 5 points in your pyro tree LOLOLOLOLOLOL

    A DPS increase was what was intended.
    Is it overpowered?
    I've seen nothing to illustrate this point.
    All I've heard is "I've been playign with this spec and spark seems overpowered"
    Okay in what way?

    Is it outputting too much damage?
    Can you provide numbers?

    Factual data so something can be worked with? Pretty please?

    The issue however, is the effect of the Nyx's warlock crystal (HK crystal) which when combined with defile can put out huge damage.
    30% towards crit damage when defile is active? That is powerful.

    That is in PvE though.

    This is the same old trend of "this class got X ability, X ability is broken."

  12. #12
    Plane Touched Delillo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aguni View Post
    Did you even read what you stated?
    ...
    This is the same old trend of "this class got X ability, X ability is broken."
    Dissb is a mage, a very good mage, who is asserting that spark is overpowered.

    He is not a troll advocating a nerf for another class but rather a player who understands the mage class mechanics as well as anyone.

    I have personally seen Dissb post a 31 KB / 0 deaths Whitefall game with this spec. A game where no other player hit double digits in KBs.

    If he is asserting that spark is OP its not out of self interest.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delillo View Post
    Dissb is a mage, a very good mage, who is asserting that spark is overpowered.
    He also supposedly quit.
    Furthermore so what is Dissb plays a mage.
    SO do many, many other mages.
    Quote Originally Posted by Delillo View Post
    He is not a troll advocating a nerf for another class but rather a player who understands the mage class mechanics as well as anyone.
    So do I.
    Again your point?
    You're essentialyl saying "Dissb is a mage, so he has to be onto something!"
    Okay and?
    You can spout a biography but what is being analyzed is the arguments themselves.
    So far, no numbers have been provided to indicate that spark is broken.

    Furthermore, why did you quote me if my response was to Shadow?
    Quote Originally Posted by Delillo View Post
    I have personally seen Dissb post a 31 KB / 0 deaths Whitefall game with this spec. A game where no other player hit double digits in KBs.
    I've personally managed to pull off a 37 Kb's/ 0 deaths White Fall game with my pyrodom spec.
    Pyro dom be broken brah.

    I've also gotten a 34 kb/0 death game in Codex, a 32 game in WF and a 33 in BG wih Chlorodom. No spark involved.

    Close games too.
    Quote Originally Posted by Delillo View Post
    If he is asserting that spark is OP its not out of self interest.
    If he is asserting that Spark is OP, I want him to prove it.
    Being Dissb does not validate an argument.
    So provide the numbers providing evidence that spark is OP.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aguni View Post
    Being Dissb does not validate an argument.
    So provide the numbers providing evidence that spark is OP.
    This.

    /10char

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aguni View Post
    If he is asserting that Spark is OP, I want him to prove it.
    Being Dissb does not validate an argument.
    So provide the numbers providing evidence that spark is OP.
    Being Dissb doesn't validate the argument, but it is someone that a lot of us know as being well versed in mage, not a troll,very logical and one of the top mages in the game, so his statements usually carry more weight than... well basically most people.

    That being said, he put numbers and all that in his full post if you read his blog and why he thinks it's OP...

    if you think he's wrong, then state why... otherwise you're just doing the same thing you're saying he is doing.
    Last edited by StrifeV; 12-08-2011 at 11:25 AM.
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