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Thread: Class "mechanics" all basically the same??

  1. #1
    Telaran
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    Default Class "mechanics" all basically the same??

    I was very happy to hear that there would be different mechanics for each calling, as I am a huge fan of unique playstyles from class to class. However, after reading this writeup on the different mechanics - http://riftnexus.com/page/articles/_...e-part-one-r64
    I can't help but be a little dissapointed. Rogues have a typical energy + combo point system with finishers, but warriors also have energy and combo points? The only difference being the rogue combo points are on mobs and warriors is on himself. Mages have a "charge" mechanic, and spells that use said charge, but it amounts to the same thing as well, with combo building skills and finishers. Priests don't even have a mechanic, instead just the usual mana.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm still super excited for rift, but this is a bit of a letdown, and seems lacking in imagination. Combo points are of course nothing new (and there's nothing wrong with that), but as long as we are borrowing mechanics from other games, why not use some of the many awesome choices out there, like rage in WoW or adrenaline in GW, or combustion in Warhammer, or any of the great mechanics in Vanguard or even LotRO. I'm just confused why they would choose three variations of the combo system.

    The only reason I can think of would be because they just wanted a broad system that would be able to be not too complicated by itself and able to be complimented by additional systems from the souls themselves, so here's hoping it gets a lot more in-depth than just this, especially on the priest side.

  2. #2
    Ascendant tro44's Avatar
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    I would like some new systems.

    Hey OP make a suggestion and explain how it works for us that have no exp in those games

  3. #3
    Soulwalker
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    Well, I actually see it as a positiv thing that other classes got combo / action points.

    It force ppl to be on their toes instead of just hit the random buttons. Now they have to think even more about how they do it and in which order.

    And its not just about hitting the 5 combo points - no again you have to be intelligent about it:

    You tend to have skills that build combo points, skills that require you to use another skill (and land it on the mob you are attacking), some reactionary ones like blade dancer skills that need you to dodge to use them, and then finishing ones that use up combo points and do more damage if you have 3 points up instead of 5 for example.

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    Rift Master DarkoneNeo's Avatar
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    WTB Dual Targeting

    Specially for Clerics.

    I miss having my Focus target and then my actual targeted in the current game I'm playing.

    I could write macros specifically for my Focus target so I wouldn't have to lose my main target when doing dmg or when healing multiple tanks (not in party).

    WoW allowed that system, and it was extremely helpful. I shouldn't have to lose my main target to heal someone beside me, sort of. I had it set up where I could instantly hit a hotkey and bind a player to my focused target and still be doing something with another target. It made it fun too because one thing I've always loved about healing was the multitasking that it involved.

    I don't know of a system that would be better for clerics. I personally would hate seeing a game stray too much from the norm here because there is already a lot on the shoulders of a healer. I'd hate to have to learn some 'new' system and relearn to heal all over simply cause a game wanted to introduce a new mechanic. I think the class variations and skills should be enough to keep things varied.

    Most Likely to be: Defiant - Cleric Calling (PvP Server)

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    Ascendant Elladar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psimonk View Post
    like rage in WoW
    Ok, so tell me this, what does charge look like to you? Its pretty much the same, one difference is you dont get charge while you are being hit. Personally I am going to play Mage, thus having this thing has made my day, when they announced it. And why would you want to change something if it works? Rogues use combo points, tested, re-tested, it works. Bullet proof idea. No reason to change it.
    I don't need to "Get a life."! I'm a Gamer! I have loads of Lifes! - - - Necromancy - happiness is an army of unstoppable, loyal, killing machines.

  6. #6
    Telaran
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    Rage was horribly imbalanced for 6 years in WoW. No matter how many times they tried to normalize it, they have had trouble. Even right now, they're having a tough time balancing it properly.

    I dealt with rage for multiple years and I don't want to deal with it again. Gear inflation caused too many problems with rage.

    Similar thing goes for WAR. The Ironbreaker had the Grudge system which was an interesting mechanic. Then, as per usual, the mechanic was nerfed to oblivion during PvP, I had to hope my enemies were idiots and attack me, or spend my entire time in combat switching my oath friend to someone who was getting hit often enough that my grudge would stay relatively high.

    With no Grudge, the Ironbreaker was the weakest tank in the game, with Maxed Grudge, they were the strongest by a pretty decent margin. Balancing didn't come too easiy.

    Also, WAR and WoW mechanics are based off individual classes. In Rift, you have 8+ classes per calling, a mechanic like rage for Warriors doesn't work for all of the souls.

    A Champion, Warlord and Beastmaster with Rage may make sense, but it doesn't make much sense with Paladin, Void Knight and Reaver.

    Also keep in mind certain souls may have their own, personal system to monitor. For example, the Void Knight seems to have a 'pact' system based on the handful of skills posted in the forums. With up to 3 souls to use, you may find yourself monitoring combo points as well 3 separate, more precise systems on top of that.

  7. #7
    Telaran
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    In reply to the OP, the majority of aspects in just about any MMO out has been "borrowed" and adapted to fit the needs of the newer game. ALL MMOs have done this and probably will keep doing this. Even the precious WoW cash machine that everyone for some reason thinks they did it first. There's nothing in that game that some other developer didn't already implement, some of it they did worse, some they did better. Let the finished product speak for itself before you make a decision, unless you like buying car or clothes before actually trying them.

  8. #8
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    The best thing to keep in mind here is that game mechanics are easily changed.

    And that there is a determinate middle-ground between enjoyment and complexity.

  9. #9
    Telaran Dragma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psimonk View Post
    I was very happy to hear that there would be different mechanics for each calling, as I am a huge fan of unique playstyles from class to class. However, after reading this writeup on the different mechanics - http://riftnexus.com/page/articles/_...e-part-one-r64
    I can't help but be a little dissapointed. Rogues have a typical energy + combo point system with finishers, but warriors also have energy and combo points? The only difference being the rogue combo points are on mobs and warriors is on himself. Mages have a "charge" mechanic, and spells that use said charge, but it amounts to the same thing as well, with combo building skills and finishers. Priests don't even have a mechanic, instead just the usual mana.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm still super excited for rift, but this is a bit of a letdown, and seems lacking in imagination. Combo points are of course nothing new (and there's nothing wrong with that), but as long as we are borrowing mechanics from other games, why not use some of the many awesome choices out there, like rage in WoW or adrenaline in GW, or combustion in Warhammer, or any of the great mechanics in Vanguard or even LotRO. I'm just confused why they would choose three variations of the combo system.

    The only reason I can think of would be because they just wanted a broad system that would be able to be not too complicated by itself and able to be complimented by additional systems from the souls themselves, so here's hoping it gets a lot more in-depth than just this, especially on the priest side.
    I feel the same way but at least there trying and we have to realize that there is no system like the soul system that's coming out in rift no mmorpg comes close to what there doing maybe GW but it's skill based. We have real control in our hands to come up with the class we want my dream class is a monk with little bit of magic like WoW shaman but more martial arts i hope i can make it. One of my best friends started playing wow with me he made a hunter loved his hunter and Beast Master spec Wotlk comes out and they killed BM off and hes force to play the other 2 spec. I bring this up cause I'm sick of playing mmorpg that force you to play a role,spec or doesn't have a class that fits your playing style it's not hard to make a bunch of classes for different styles one thing i like about eq2 is there classes have different roles from tank,dps,heals,support,support tank,support heals, classes like that more games need support roles or even buffer classes.

  10. #10
    Shadowlander Agahnim's Avatar
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    My favorite class mechanic from an mmo is easily from Vanguard: Saga of Heroes.

    Alot of diversion, and the combo system is awesome.

  11. #11
    Rift Disciple Nimsul's Avatar
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    I like the idea of a momentum mechanic.

    When you first engage in combat, you attack at a regular pace and relatively long cooldown period on abilities but the longer you're actively fighting the greater your attack speed and the faster your abilities cooldown until it hits an x% and you're a tasmanian devil

    And while you're out of combat or not actively fighting, your attack speed and cooldowns increase in time.

  12. #12
    Plane Touched Samil's Avatar
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    To add a mechanic from LOTRO, I really enjoyed the warden's playstyle.

    You basically had to execute a certain order (not just combination) of skill types to get a certain effect. Skills were divided into three types - offensive (red), defensive (green), and "tankish" e.g. taunts (yellow). Each arrangement of skills executed opened up a finisher (aka gambit) that was unique, for example executing a red skill followed by a green skill opened up a chance to stun finisher. As the warden levelled up, the possible length of the combos and hence the possible number of finishers increased. The large variety of finishers meant that the warden really shined in the hands of a player who knew what he was doing.

    Started with EQ, and currently helping out on the Telarapedia while waiting for Rift!

  13. #13
    Rift Chaser eLdritchZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psimonk View Post
    I was very happy to hear that there would be different mechanics for each calling, as I am a huge fan of unique playstyles from class to class. However, after reading this writeup on the different mechanics - http://riftnexus.com/page/articles/_...e-part-one-r64
    I can't help but be a little dissapointed. Rogues have a typical energy + combo point system with finishers, but warriors also have energy and combo points? The only difference being the rogue combo points are on mobs and warriors is on himself. Mages have a "charge" mechanic, and spells that use said charge, but it amounts to the same thing as well, with combo building skills and finishers. Priests don't even have a mechanic, instead just the usual mana.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm still super excited for rift, but this is a bit of a letdown, and seems lacking in imagination. Combo points are of course nothing new (and there's nothing wrong with that), but as long as we are borrowing mechanics from other games, why not use some of the many awesome choices out there, like rage in WoW or adrenaline in GW, or combustion in Warhammer, or any of the great mechanics in Vanguard or even LotRO. I'm just confused why they would choose three variations of the combo system.

    The only reason I can think of would be because they just wanted a broad system that would be able to be not too complicated by itself and able to be complimented by additional systems from the souls themselves, so here's hoping it gets a lot more in-depth than just this, especially on the priest side.
    woah woah woah.... let's not get carried away here, okay? I like class mechanics just as much as the next guy... with Warden and Runekeeper in LotrO being 2 of my favourite.... but Combustion?? seriously?? that one was such a horrible idea.... why bring it back? worst mechanic ever... unbalanceable. I know, I know it wasn't that big a deal on US servers... on the EU servers I played it was either "be a BW/sorc or some class that is useful to those 2, or go play alone".... so I hope you don't mind if I take Combustion and throw it out the window, yes? ;)

    I am a bit disappointed about the Clerics lacking a mechanism... I have to say though in some of the trees I saw thus far there are "mini mechanisms" embedded if you will... so I'm guessing in the long run the characters will turn out intricate and engaging enough... I hope so, anyway...

  14. #14
    Soulwalker
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    for a bard i would say and look the playstyle from eq1 more so vanguard that i liked a lot for playing a bard eq2 and few other games it's basically kinda a scout trying too dps a little bit and rest is kinda like buffbot so hope the game mechanics won't make a class into just purely buffbot that would be sad and annoying

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nimsul View Post
    I like the idea of a momentum mechanic.

    When you first engage in combat, you attack at a regular pace and relatively long cooldown period on abilities but the longer you're actively fighting the greater your attack speed and the faster your abilities cooldown until it hits an x% and you're a tasmanian devil

    And while you're out of combat or not actively fighting, your attack speed and cooldowns increase in time.
    Class self-buffing would remove the need for other classes bestowing their powers upon you. They buff you.

    Maybe a good idea if it were heavily restricted to one class - not even attainable by other archetypes. And that the Cleric buff stacks with it; but the Cleric's [assuming they buff melee and ranged powers] buff across the group has the normal effect.

    Ying and Yang.

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