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Thread: Calling all Saboteurs

  1. #46
    Soulwalker Floscar79's Avatar
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    Default Weapon and attack power question

    As a sabo, do I need to care about weapon damage on either ranged or melee? Which one should a sabo focus on? What about attack power? Does AP aid in the damage done by detonate, or is it strictly an ability that does flat damage not scalable by AP? I know some abilities say "does weapon plus X to X damage.." so on. But which weapon, as a rogue class both ranged and melee weapons are important. But as a sabo weapons don't seem to matter much. Can anyone enlighten me?
    ZOMG! It's a WOW clone. [SIGPIC][SIGPIC]

  2. #47
    Rift Disciple Transparent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sponx View Post
    I played a Saboteur part of the last 2 beta events, and I quite enjoy it. It's not a no-brainer class, and requires some thinking to master it, which I find quite fun. To anyone looking for a bit more of a challenge when it comes to mastering a class, I really recommend the Saboteur.
    Smashing one button to stack charges on target and then pushing one button requires lot of thinking? Yeah, right...

    This post is not here to aggro anyone, thats just my 2cents how i felt saboteur class in beta.

  3. #48
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    So this is what saboteur threads looked like in the before times. Huh.

  4. #49
    Jpo
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    Level 50 build for max damage, with survivability

    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0M...00o.VVMbE00koR

    This build is a lot of fun.. you get to start pinging people from great range w/ swift shot, and this increases your speed.. once you have then down to about 60-70% hp, start stacking charges.. preferably on of each ember, splinter, caltrop, blast and shrapnel. The first 3 do earth damage and benefit from NB's "unstable state" (see below). Detonate, then as needed, use annihilation bomb, adhesive bomb or twilight force to slow your target, then just swift shot em to death.

    Alternatively, you can stack blast charges only, then use annihilation bomb to blow them up(and 1 or 2 friends).. in this case, your combo point will stay on your target.. a deadeye shot will take care of them at this point. If they do have friends, just use carpet bombing and hit them will a few more annih bombs.

    I only played my sab to 27, but I had all the points I wanted in the sab tree, and a few in marksman/NB. I can tell you, not only did I do massive damage, but I rarely died in warfronts. Will range and speed it just takes a little bit of skill to stay out of range and spike people. Lots of fun.. and always close to the top of DPS and killing blows.

    Key features-

    Sab burst damage augmented by:
    -blazing fury- +15% dmg to combat-point generating moves (swift shot, charges)
    -coup de grace- increases finisher dmg by 15% (Hasted shot, detonate)
    -fire and death attunement- 3% dmg boost (+15% fire/death defense)
    -Unstable state- 9% extra non-physical damage (3 charges are non-physical, along w/ annihilation bomb)
    -melted skin- when hellfire blades procs, you do 5% extra damage for 15s
    -dark malady- stealth attack that causes the enemy to take 20% extra damage for 8s
    -TWO weapon enchanments- cant hurt to do extra dmg when using the bow

    CC/Anti-CC moves
    -Speed increase w/ swift shot, hasted shot, hasty departure
    -On the double- breaks CC and increases speed by 70%
    -Repelling shot- when you get charged by a warr, use this
    -dark containment- incaps enemy for 15s (*can be used in combat*)
    -lost hope- incaps for 30s
    -twilight force- slows enemy to 50% for 6s
    -twilight shelter- reduces damage taken by 80% for 8s

    Lots of fun, liked sab from the start, they're the physical damage mage I've always wanted...When I first rolled one, I thought they'd be underplayed, seeing them as the "trapper" class.. boy was I wrong.
    Last edited by Jpo; 02-09-2011 at 04:23 PM.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arkeid View Post
    So this is what saboteur threads looked like in the before times. Huh.
    There were no Sab threads in the before times. It wasnt until i outed them 3 betas ago as being the most broken soul in the game that everyone started playing one. Now those same people that had no idea about sabs till i told them about them are theorycrafting there lvl 50 builds.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Transparent View Post
    Smashing one button to stack charges on target and then pushing one button requires lot of thinking? Yeah, right...

    This post is not here to aggro anyone, thats just my 2cents how i felt saboteur class in beta.
    I'm not going to flame you for posting this, because it *IS* how a lot of people view the Sab class - and to some degree they're right, since a lot of Sabs *play* that way. It's an easy rut to fall into, and it is powerful enough that even a poor player can do "ok" or better playing that way.

    However.

    If you spend some time playing around with the different abilities the Sab brings to the table, they are SO much more versatile. Anyone who doesn't use all those other abilities is selling the class short in a big way.

    My credentials: I was the first Sab to lvl 30 in Beta 5 and first to lvl 35 in Beta 6 on Grarlwood as best I can tell. At least I got shard "firsts" on almost every mob I killed and every quest I finished in Stonefield, Scarlet Gorge and Scarwood Reach on the Defiant side.

    What I found was that the Sab is definately multifaceted and capable of filling different roles. They can pull without aggroing nearby mobs, they can snare/stun kite, they do some great debuffs which lower armor and increase damage, and they have decent dots - a bleed and a static aoe. Oh, and they can nuke like a champ - provided they don't get stunned, feared or stomped on. The nerf to frag bomb really killed their AOE capabilities, but they can still stack some on using chemical bomb and shrapnel charge - but it's not mad dps AOE like it was in Beta 5. The term "glass cannon" has been used before and it's pretty applicable - Sabs can dish out dps, debuffs and dots but they're Oh So Squishy.

    One tactic that I think has been completely overlooked as best I can tell from reading posts is the ability to stack DIFFERENT charges on a target and trigger them all together. Wanna do some damage but don't want big ugly to bend you over? Stack 3 caltrop charges and 2 blast charges and kite away. Have a pet? Stack on embers charges up to 5 for an extra 10% damage from ALL SOURCES for the pull and then switch to concussion charges mixed with blast or spikes to keep your pet alive. Don't forget using chemical and adhesive bombs along with concussion charges to stun kite - shades of the WoW hunter epic there, but still works. One concussion charge tossed in with your other charges is *great* for interrupting spells against casters - you don't even have to go full stacks to make this work.

    Oh, and if you screw it up, you die. Fast. Leather armor and no healing abilities makes this pretty unforgiving, even with extra endurance or dexterity. Again, great powers, but great vulnerability too. Glass Cannon.

    So yeah, if you want to use 2 buttons only that's an option - but arguably you *could* just turn autoattack on and use your basic attack/finisher over and over for any class too. But why would you?

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaym7018 View Post
    There were no Sab threads in the before times. It wasnt until i outed them 3 betas ago as being the most broken soul in the game that everyone started playing one. Now those same people that had no idea about sabs till i told them about them are theorycrafting there lvl 50 builds.
    This is one of those "2 button" guys. Wait - 3 - he uses annihilation bomb too. He's notorious for one shotting players 5+ levels lower than he is and avoiding posting any details on how he performs against same level opponents.

    Pro Tip: Don't stand in the fire. Use your classes strengths against the weaknesses of your opponents instead of playing to their strengths.

    Wanna beat a sab? Dot him up. Stun or Fear him. Snare him and get out of range before he detonates, since he's doing ZERO dps until he uses it. Ooops - he can't even switch targets since he has to start over again if he does.

    Sabs can't heal themselves much, or break snares or fears or do appreciable damage until they get full charges on you. Play to avoid this and you win. Ignore these facts and you get pwned, just like you would against any other class.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by skeet View Post
    This is one of those "2 button" guys. Wait - 3 - he uses annihilation bomb too. He's notorious for one shotting players 5+ levels lower than he is and avoiding posting any details on how he performs against same level opponents.

    Pro Tip: Don't stand in the fire. Use your classes strengths against the weaknesses of your opponents instead of playing to their strengths.

    Wanna beat a sab? Dot him up. Stun or Fear him. Snare him and get out of range before he detonates, since he's doing ZERO dps until he uses it. Ooops - he can't even switch targets since he has to start over again if he does.

    Sabs can't heal themselves much, or break snares or fears or do appreciable damage until they get full charges on you. Play to avoid this and you win. Ignore these facts and you get pwned, just like you would against any other class.
    Explain to me how dot him up stun him fear him sanre him get out of range make him switch targets applies to just sabs and not every freaking class in the game.

    Wanna beat an assassin dot him up stun him fear him sanre him get out of range make him switch targets

    wanna beat a void knight dot him up stun him fear him sanre him get out of range make him switch targets

    wanna beat a marksman dot him up stun him fear him sanre him get out of range make him switch targets

    Wanna beat a riftblade dot him up stun him fear him sanre him get out of range make him switch targets
    Last edited by jaym7018; 02-09-2011 at 06:54 PM.

  9. #54
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    Well, other classes can block fears, snares and stuns, heal themselves, dispell dots, put up shields, teleport out of range...

    I could go on.

    If you want to fight a sab, figure out what a sab CAN'T do, then do things that take advantage of that. Just like you'd treat any other class, for pete's sake!

    Can you out-dps a healer? Probably not.
    Counter: Stun him or interrupt his heals.

    Can you go toe to toe vs. a plate wearing tank? Probably not.
    Counter: Dot him up and stay out of melee range.

    Can you survive getting 5 blast charges and a detonate? Probably, but it'll hurt lots.
    Counter: Use LOS, dot up the sab, CC the sab, use class abilities to avoid/mitigate/block damage, etc.

    See?

    If you stand around and let a sab stack 5 charges on you and then detonate it, then you're going to take a lot of damage. That's 7 seconds you're not doing anything to counter the sab AND 7 seconds that the sab isn't doing anything else either. Think maybe your time would be well spent doing something to counter that incoming damage instead? LOS? Stun? Fear?

    Come on, you make it out like there's no defense against an all powerful, unstoppable deathblow. Maybe if detonate ignored LOS, had infinite range and prevented all damage and CCs against the sab it WOULD be. But it doesn't do ANY of those things.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by skeet View Post
    Well, other classes can block fears, snares and stuns, heal themselves, dispell dots, put up shields, teleport out of range...

    I could go on.

    If you want to fight a sab, figure out what a sab CAN'T do, then do things that take advantage of that. Just like you'd treat any other class, for pete's sake!

    Can you out-dps a healer? Probably not.
    Counter: Stun him or interrupt his heals.

    Can you go toe to toe vs. a plate wearing tank? Probably not.
    Counter: Dot him up and stay out of melee range.

    Can you survive getting 5 blast charges and a detonate? Probably, but it'll hurt lots.
    Counter: Use LOS, dot up the sab, CC the sab, use class abilities to avoid/mitigate/block damage, etc.

    See?

    If you stand around and let a sab stack 5 charges on you and then detonate it, then you're going to take a lot of damage. That's 7 seconds you're not doing anything to counter the sab AND 7 seconds that the sab isn't doing anything else either. Think maybe your time would be well spent doing something to counter that incoming damage instead? LOS? Stun? Fear?

    Come on, you make it out like there's no defense against an all powerful, unstoppable deathblow. Maybe if detonate ignored LOS, had infinite range and prevented all damage and CCs against the sab it WOULD be. But it doesn't do ANY of those things.
    Your counter for sab works for every class in the game.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaym7018 View Post
    There were no Sab threads in the before times.
    There was at least one, it's right here.

    And look at it, forty plus replies and nary a hint of "l2play nub". It's like these distant ancestors could survive without venom and bile at all.

  12. #57
    Rift Disciple Smeegs's Avatar
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    Hey, I have not read the full thread. But I have played the last 4 betas as Rogue calling exclusively and have spent nearly 80% of the time main'ing a Saboteur, usually with a ranger assassin offspec. I built my rogue to max out (in order of priority): crit rating, dexterity, AP, strength. So I had the crit bonuses from the sin poison and tree, and the ranger tree. Ending up with somewhere around 38% crit if my poison applied.

    This build was primarily PvE and was loosing solo effectiveness beyond level 32. This build did not focus on ranger and as such I was limited to lesser pets maxed at level 30. In a small group environment where I was not at risk of taking damage I could produce huge amounts of damage. With the charge+1 talent I could apply one of each of the most damaging charges (Blast, Splinter, Shrapnel, Ember, Spike) and crit on 2 out of the 6 damaging effects. This produced a very wide range of damage between 1.5k to 2.5k at level 33*. Combined with the two DOTs, spike and talented splinter, this would one shot any normal monster of my level or less. When two or more mobs were grouped I spiked up one mob and shrapneled up another. I Threw an anihilation bomb at the spiked mob and detonated the shrapnel mob on the second gcd. Unless the AoE was dodged, parried, or missed this was a sure kill for everything in the area.

    In PvP, this specific build was not as efficient as I think I could make it. It required that I try my best to ambush individuals or stand anonymous in a mob. This soul has no effective escape abilities. There is one slow on a 15 seconds cooldown, or a slow that requires several global cooldowns and does minimal damage. The class has no survivability on its own and to augment damage heavily, survivability must be sacrificed in other trees.

    So here is where sab is weak: by entering melee range the saboteur is generally forced into combat until death, running is not an option. Missing a global cooldown is a massive setback to a saboteur. The key element to surviving a battle as a saboteur is to build up your charges quickly and end the battle even quicker. The saboteur has no ability on its own to mitigate damage or heal, it is a *pure* offensive and sundering class with some ability to CC.

    So here is the secret if you want to kill a saboteur. Simply outlast them. Mitigate the saboteurs damage if you can with heals or some tanking abilities. Apply dots to the saboteur, he has not ability to mitigate them and it will do full damage. Close to melee range and the saboteur may miss global cooldowns and can no longer escape if any CC is applied. Stunning the rogue greatly delays their ability to stack charges.

    Beyond that, I am realy loosing my train of thought, if anyone cares Ill be happy to discuss further.

    *My last two levels were spent as a Bard Riftstalker and the fire class to great survivability and acceptable sustained damage

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaym7018 View Post
    Your counter for sab works for every class in the game.
    Not really. You'll never beat a healer - well, kill a healer, by using the tactics I suggested for a sab. Ditto for a DOT class, or a pet class. Against melee classes, you'll have trouble keeping them out of close range - and as an added bonus, you have to be facing them to apply charges. Note - the sab tactics would work against any RANGED class - rogue and mage of various builds.

    Isn't saying that "your counter for sab works for every other class in the game" kinda hurting your argument, by the way?

  14. #59
    Soulwalker Floscar79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaym7018 View Post
    There were no Sab threads in the before times. It wasnt until i outed them 3 betas ago as being the most broken soul in the game that everyone started playing one. Now those same people that had no idea about sabs till i told them about them are theorycrafting there lvl 50 builds.
    Dude, you really do just go around trolling. You didn't invent sabo, you had no hand in their design. Yet you are still QQing wanting credit for all the people playing sabo. Do you think the developers had some hand in the popularity of this class or did you singlehandedly break the code and make the class better? You need to spend some time in the real world, stop trolling so much in these forums.
    ZOMG! It's a WOW clone. [SIGPIC][SIGPIC]

  15. #60
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    I played a Sab/Marks/Riftstalker.
    I could burst people down really well, simply because people are either
    1) Over confident
    2) Stupid
    3) Don't know enough about the game.

    I put my 5 Charges on them, then carry on with my rotation and for the most part, people didn't move, CC me, los, anything, they just stood there going "Lolz I got heals I won't die ever" and well, they died.

    I'll admit the duration of Charges is too long ( 60s is just silly )
    It should be reduced to 10s ( Refreshable ) and Cleansable

    I'll quote something I read in another thread, but add a bit to it
    "Most people who die to Saboteurs are the same people who would stand in a fire and question why they get burnt"
    There were a few people who CC'd me, focused me, ran out of los, or out of range. I applaud those select few, I mean it's such a relief to know that there's a few people out there that actually have a brain!
    To sum it up, I killed because I was allowed to kill, nobody stopped me.
    This, at least, is my PvP Experience.


    I'm sorry, I can't comment on PvE/Leveling, as I leveled as a Marksman/Ranger/Saboteur
    But it shouldn't be too bad if you get the talent that reduces threat by 100% and maybe a pet =]

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