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Thread: Is the Pyromancer soul redundant to have when there is the Elementalist?

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    Telaran mairsile's Avatar
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    Default Is the Pyromancer soul redundant to have when there is the Elementalist?

    Now I know many people who love the idea of a mage specializing in hurling big, fiery balls of death and charring everything to a crisp in merciless pillars of He** fire. But to me, an Elementalist could have been able to cast Earth, Wind, Ice and Fire magic. With a mastery that another soul could have practiced, that one soul spot could have been given to another mage type. We all know there are literally dozens of unique and desirable casters out there that large groups of people wish to see here.

    Thoughts?

    Edit: Wow. I didn't expect that the place "down under" was a word to be filtered.
    Last edited by mairsile; 08-22-2010 at 03:35 AM.

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    Champion of Telara g0kuenuan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mairsile View Post
    Now I know many people who love the idea of a mage specializing in hurling big, fiery balls of death and charring everything to a crisp in merciless pillars of **** fire. But to me, an Elementalist could have been able to cast Earth, Wind, Ice and Fire magic. With a mastery that another soul could have practiced, that one soul spot could have been given to another mage type. We all know there are literally dozens of unique and desirable casters out there that large groups of people wish to see here.

    Thoughts?
    im a sure elementalist will not have the DIRECT DAMAGE that pyro will have
    elementalist has pets, pyro is a nuker
    two different play types

    giving a single class NUKE ability AND pets would have been OP
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    Telaran mairsile's Avatar
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    Regarding your OP implication, did you not see the Elemantalist gameplay videos? They had a pet attacking the targets and were nuking and killing the monsters with nearly 3 casts. Sure, the Pyromancer's nukes may do a bit more damage, but will likely be comparable to the Elementalist nuke + pet damage. The Necromancer is another popular pet class that has direct damage capability - so is the Sorceror, Cabalist, Enchanter, Spiritmaster, etc. in multiple games. With that said, the Elementalist here reminds me of the Theurgist in DAoC who was one of my favorite classes and had a few direct damage spells, but was known more for their very useful and deadly pets that they could spam quite a few of. The only time it is ever OP is if the developer establishes an imbalance between the magic damage and pet damage. I'm sure the good folks making Rift could keep that from happening. I just think that spot could have been given to something else and let the Elementalist handle the duties of that one single mastery. Besides, I can assure you that there will be a few other nukers among the remaining unmentioned Mage souls.
    Last edited by mairsile; 08-22-2010 at 04:48 AM.

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    Rift Master Faelor's Avatar
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    Cutting to the chase,

    You're watching a video of a game that was demoed in its alpha stage with totally unbalanced abilities and non-max level characters.
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    Plane Touched kartys's Avatar
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    It is really hard to consider something redundant when all you have is a brief video. Until we actually can see the abilities - this nuke does this that does that etc - we don't have much of any clue.

    Quote Originally Posted by Faelor
    You're watching a video of a game that was demoed in its alpha stage with totally unbalanced abilities and non-max level characters.
    Truth ^^

    I am sure Trion has taken into consideration redundancy because if everything is the same just with a different skin the entire soul system falls apart. Hopefully come beta and release we will have a better understanding.

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    Ascendant Elladar's Avatar
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    Personally I think Elementalist will not eve be able to hold a candle to Pyromancer in the NUKE department. What we saw in most videos was a lvl 1 Elementalist. Back in my days of WoW, lvl 1 warlock did only 2 - 4 points less damage with his spells than lvl 1 mage. But then again warlock had a pet at lvl 2 that provided extra 4 - 5 damage, so it all evened out. We seriously need more information about spells and how they scale with level, to draw any serious conclusisons.
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    Plane Touched Paks's Avatar
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    well - Elementalist has a wide range of spells AND pets... Pyromancer has self buffs and Nukes....

    and since you can Multi-Class - you can have an Elementalist WITH the Pyromancer Nukes and Buffs.... (But that's just me being sensible....)
    Veteran MMORPG Player for 10 years. Played almost all of them at one point. Played variety of races and classes and am good at most of them also.

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    Rift Disciple Zawr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mairsile View Post
    Regarding your OP implication, did you not see the Elemantalist gameplay videos? They had a pet attacking the targets and were nuking and killing the monsters with nearly 3 casts. Sure, the Pyromancer's nukes may do a bit more damage, but will likely be comparable to the Elementalist nuke + pet damage. The Necromancer is another popular pet class that has direct damage capability - so is the Sorceror, Cabalist, Enchanter, Spiritmaster, etc. in multiple games. With that said, the Elementalist here reminds me of the Theurgist in DAoC who was one of my favorite classes and had a few direct damage spells, but was known more for their very useful and deadly pets that they could spam quite a few of. The only time it is ever OP is if the developer establishes an imbalance between the magic damage and pet damage. I'm sure the good folks making Rift could keep that from happening. I just think that spot could have been given to something else and let the Elementalist handle the duties of that one single mastery. Besides, I can assure you that there will be a few other nukers among the remaining unmentioned Mage souls.
    Killing yard trash is a totally different monster [no pun intended] than killing raid bosses. Class definition will truly shine in that situation.

    However, I can see where you would worry. We will just have to hope that classes in each archetype have defining skills for more than just raid bosses. I'm not worried about this, as I am sure they will.

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    Ascendant Noaani's Avatar
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    Using EQ2 as an example, I see the Pyromancer as the Wizard equivalent, and the Elementalist as the Conjuror equivalent.

    Wizards/Pyrmoancers are big nuke, massive damage mages. They are your quintessential glass cannons (hopefully Rift will see them actually deserve being called glass cannons... no one has quite hit that). Conjurors/Elementalists are summoners, whom just so happen to specialize in elemental summoning.

    Its possible that these two classes would make for a good cross-over, though to be honest I have never been a fan of pet classes. As for them being redundant - not at all. Elementalists are pets, and Pyromancers are spells. It is about as different as a melee DPS vs a ranged DPS rouge.

    Even from a lore perspective, Elementalists are said to be masters of the planes, but Pyromancers have no mention of the planes at all. They seem to be more of an evocation style of magic (if you look back to D&D), where they just cast spells, not open up portals to any planes.

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    Champion of Telara g0kuenuan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mairsile View Post
    Regarding your OP implication, did you not see the Elemantalist gameplay videos? They had a pet attacking the targets and were nuking and killing the monsters with nearly 3 casts. Sure, the Pyromancer's nukes may do a bit more damage, but will likely be comparable to the Elementalist nuke + pet damage. The Necromancer is another popular pet class that has direct damage capability - so is the Sorceror, Cabalist, Enchanter, Spiritmaster, etc. in multiple games. With that said, the Elementalist here reminds me of the Theurgist in DAoC who was one of my favorite classes and had a few direct damage spells, but was known more for their very useful and deadly pets that they could spam quite a few of. The only time it is ever OP is if the developer establishes an imbalance between the magic damage and pet damage. I'm sure the good folks making Rift could keep that from happening. I just think that spot could have been given to something else and let the Elementalist handle the duties of that one single mastery. Besides, I can assure you that there will be a few other nukers among the remaining unmentioned Mage souls.
    please tell me you are not talkin about the level 1-2 gameplay videos
    please tell me you are not comparing lvl 1 gameplay of two similar classes
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    Plane Touched Insaneium's Avatar
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    Consider it this way. An Elementalist is a jack of all trades, and the Pyromancer excels at one; FIRE!!!11

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    Telaran mairsile's Avatar
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    I don't have an issue with the Pyromancer existing at all. The Pyromancer would be an EQ2/DAoC equivalent to a Wizard, but with a single focus on fire rather than a choice of Fire, Ice and Earth and deal higher damage with spells. What I am concerned about is with just 3 mage souls known, two of them use fire to some degree. I certainly do not want to end up with 3 of 8 souls being fire casters. To me that would be too much overlap when there are so many magic types out there to have in this game. Naturally there will be one or two souls that will share similar magic types when its all said and done. I'd like them to add as many diverse souls as possible first. But I'll be patient and wait until the remaining souls are unveiled.

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    Champion of Telara g0kuenuan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mairsile View Post
    I don't have an issue with the Pyromancer existing at all. The Pyromancer would be an EQ2/DAoC equivalent to a Wizard, but with a single focus on fire rather than a choice of Fire, Ice and Earth and deal higher damage with spells. What I am concerned about is with just 3 mage souls known, two of them use fire to some degree. I certainly do not want to end up with 3 of 8 souls being fire casters. To me that would be too much overlap when there are so many magic types out there to have in this game. Naturally there will be one or two souls that will share similar magic types when its all said and done. I'd like them to add as many diverse souls as possible first. But I'll be patient and wait until the remaining souls are unveiled.
    to this i agree
    having 3/8 fire users is lame, when the possibilities are endless when creating a mage
    there are so many elements and magic types that you can have 18 souls , and all would be different
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    Prophet of Telara Ravenwolf's Avatar
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    I want to be a "Fire Pyromancer" or a "Water Hydromancer"... now that is redundant...

    Onto my opinion...

    I dont think pyromancer will be outdone by elementalist as they will have separate qualities that make them good at different things.

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    Champion Kindair's Avatar
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    In a lot of games, fire is the strongest of the damaging abilities and considered to deal most of the damage. Why doesn't the pyro have other types of magic, because he is the master of fire. Giving him access to the strongest spells damage wise and with his specialization of fire, he is better at casting fire spells than say a elementalist who spends time studying all planes and not exclusively fire spells.

    Say both classes cast a fireball not buffing each other. The fireball from the pyro will deal more dmg than the ele's fireball. That's his purpose right there.

    You will probably not see any more exclusive mages, that only use one type of magic, most will be 2 or more. Maybe one more class who will specialize in 1 plane, but that's really pushing it. Pyro makes a lot of sense.

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