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Thread: Don't Rogues kinda need a buff?

  1. #16
    Ascendant Flashmemory's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miraodus View Post
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAmReRlHLSc

    I dunno...Suchell seems to do just fine as Marksman. (No that isn't my character by the way; just a random rogue pvp video I happened to come across yesterday.)

    There's also plenty of videos out there of 51 Sin / 15 Inf wrecking people.

    Let's not forget about Dunsparrow, Skyline, Slic and maybe Blays?. There are so many amazing rogue pvpers out there, most of which post on these very forums! They often provide tips and tricks on how to beat various soul combinations and provide very strong pvp specs.

    Any well-played rogue will do just in pvp. It's hard to believe that the entire Rogue calling is in need of a buff at this time. They do the highest sustained dps in PvE right now and have a good number of pvp specs.
    Lol...that vid proves nothing. Look at the health of the people he is targeting 4k-5kish...That is obviously a cherry picked warfront. I love calling people out. Show me vids of them owning warriors with 8-9k health or at least 7k+ come on now....wtf. I'm not even a rogue but I like calling you out...haha. Check you tube, you'll see the true power of other classes..I've soloed three rogues..mages are the worse for me as a warrior...but I can live with that. Just keep rogues at the bottom. They belong there.
    Last edited by Flashmemory; 08-30-2011 at 06:43 AM.

  2. #17
    Ascendant Flashmemory's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miraodus View Post
    They do the highest sustained dps in PvE right now and have a good number of pvp specs.
    I call bs on that too..Where are you getting your info from? Trolling probably. Shrug..let me stop feeding the trolls...
    Last edited by Flashmemory; 08-30-2011 at 06:49 AM.

  3. #18
    Shadowlander
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    I just got the 55 dps r8 gun and started running a MM build again. Damage is pretty sick right now. As more and more rogues get these weapons the complaints may drop a bit. If i pick a target and Imp Hit n Run is up? They will not survive unless they get heals from themselves and 2 other clerics. Im usually asssiting with a r7 warrior friend, anything we get on dies.

    In no way am i saying i can 1v1 a r8 warrior, but im fine with that i probably shouldnt. Warriors should be a hard counter to rogues.

  4. #19
    Ascendant Zaros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiine View Post
    I just got the 55 dps r8 gun and started running a MM build again. Damage is pretty sick right now. As more and more rogues get these weapons the complaints may drop a bit. If i pick a target and Imp Hit n Run is up? They will not survive unless they get heals from themselves and 2 other clerics. Im usually asssiting with a r7 warrior friend, anything we get on dies.

    In no way am i saying i can 1v1 a r8 warrior, but im fine with that i probably shouldnt. Warriors should be a hard counter to rogues.
    What you are seeing here is a gear gap. The majority of people you're fighting are lower ranked than you, hence they do less damage and take more. Also, MM is the closest thing rogues have to a balanced damage output.
    ~Quiescent

  5. #20
    Rift Disciple Zenora's Avatar
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    Default The Rogue Issue

    1. PvE armor is Crit Dependent. With the large amount of buff crit gives for a character its not hard to reach the crit cap more so if your a rogue. The AP values on Leather are horrible at best.

    2. Deadly Dance much like SLI is a horrible way to make up for pour damage and insignificant scaling.

    3. We are way to CD dependent. We live and die by it.

    4. Ranger pets have the worst scaling in the game. They don't do nearly enough damage.

    5. Rogue Souls are indifferent lacking all personality. No reason to go 51 most of the good abilities are low in the tree.

    6. Rogue tank scaling is a joke your mitigation is no different from T1 to T3.

    7. Our PvP armor lacks endurance since you will need to go Riftstalker just to push the same amount of hp as other classes. Since it seems almost every point in Riftstalker is a dps loss and our damage is sad without CD or DD atm. It is hard to justify the investment.

    8. People need to remember that not all rogue specs can stealth.

    This being said there are still some viability to rogues. We are not completely fail yet. 1.4 changed the world for rouges in an indirect way. By scaling back proc abilities and whet stones that we clinged to in order to be on par no longer work as well. The Crit cap didn't help much either but we can adapt just not as well as other classes.

    I still do rather well with some builds in pvp so I don't agree that we need a huge buff. I think we could use some fixes to get our class back in order from its pure pigeon holes or uber fail. I'm disappointed in rogue melee PvE wise (especially pure melee). Rogue Range could use some love but if pets scale Sozu should be fairly good. I hear 1.5 is going to bring better separation between PvP and PvE which is something that REALLY NEEDS TO BE DONE. In order to fix the chaos of damage gaps in PvE.
    Last edited by Zenora; 08-30-2011 at 07:41 AM.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miraodus View Post
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAmReRlHLSc

    I dunno...Suchell seems to do just fine as Marksman. (No that isn't my character by the way; just a random rogue pvp video I happened to come across yesterday.)

    There's also plenty of videos out there of 51 Sin / 15 Inf wrecking people.

    Let's not forget about Dunsparrow, Skyline, Slic and maybe Blays?. There are so many amazing rogue pvpers out there, most of which post on these very forums! They often provide tips and tricks on how to beat various soul combinations and provide very strong pvp specs.

    Any well-played rogue will do just in pvp. It's hard to believe that the entire Rogue calling is in need of a buff at this time. They do the highest sustained dps in PvE right now and have a good number of pvp specs.
    I know at least some of the people you mentioned as "amazing rogue pvpers" are also people who have stats they think rogues are in a state of disarray. Sometimes the guy with the BB gun is a great shot, but if he had a better tool he'd do a hell of a lot better. At this point there are plenty of great pvpers, but the tool they are given as a rogue is shoddy at best.

    Also I'd like to approach your suggestion that we had the highest sustained. False. We are neither the highest burst, nor the highest sustained damage. There is one build for the ENTIRE rogue called, a gimmick soul called the saboteur, that can even stand up to what the warrior's put out, and all of the others, both ranged and melee souls, fall far short.

    Here is at least one of the people you've mentioned, and perhaps the most well-known of those your mentioned, stating what he felt about the current state of the rogue.

    http://www.dunsparrow.com/2011/08/ro...e-warrior.html
    Last edited by mitch1989; 08-30-2011 at 08:33 AM.

  7. #22
    Sword of Telara Zahne's Avatar
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    I don't agree that Rogues and the 3 totally viable roles they can perform need buffing in any way.

  8. #23
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    Survivability on rogues really does seem to depend on 'slip away' or, for the rest of us not using it, valor/gear. Granted, I generally play support (either bard or eradibot), but going up against targets my rank or higher there's not much hope. Against targets lower than my prestige level, I win more than my fair share. Occasionally, even when outnumbered.

    Most of the ganking I see, is high ranked rogues hitting (much?) lower ranked targets and almost always double teaming whatever they hit. (I'm not saying they lack skill, because most, if not all of them, are better than me, this is just what I see happening) And, you do what it takes to win...soo, I need some more friends.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiine View Post
    I just got the 55 dps r8 gun and started running a MM build again. Damage is pretty sick right now. As more and more rogues get these weapons the complaints may drop a bit. If i pick a target and Imp Hit n Run is up? They will not survive unless they get heals from themselves and 2 other clerics. Im usually asssiting with a r7 warrior friend, anything we get on dies.

    In no way am i saying i can 1v1 a r8 warrior, but im fine with that i probably shouldnt. Warriors should be a hard counter to rogues.
    Then you realize that your 2 most vulnerable non-rogue targets can both just detaunt you. Then again, most don't even know what that is.
    Last edited by Stimuz; 08-30-2011 at 09:56 AM.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stimuz View Post
    Then you realize that your 2 most vulnerable non-rogue targets can both just detaunt you. Then again, most don't even know what that is.
    Why would you target anything but other rogues? If they get rid of clerics, mages, and warriors, this game would be awesome

  11. #26
    Ascendant Zaros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarlosSpicyWiener View Post
    Why would you target anything but other rogues? If they get rid of clerics, mages, and warriors, this game would be awesome
    Or just get rid of rogues and give us a voucher for an equally geared warrior. Wars actually have a dev team.
    ~Quiescent

  12. #27
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    Rogue ranged DPS needs a buff (as well as mage).

    It would also be beneficial if Trion would buff the deep melee specs in terms of outright dps. Making some 51 point abilities worth a lot of PvE dps would go a long way towards that goal.

    Kind of hard to complain too much as a rogue though, since sabdancer really can pump out both ST and AoE numbers that are comparable with warriors, although maybe not quite as high as highly geared warriors with 58 dps 2 handers.

  13. #28
    Ascendant Ianto Jones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pyrocaster View Post
    Kind of hard to complain too much as a rogue though
    Unless you're a Riftstalker. Taking double the damage of other tanks is actually a bit of a disadvantage. :\

  14. #29
    Champion of Telara Arcshayde's Avatar
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    Reactive abilities hit harder than core ability crits. Working as intended?

    http://i53.tinypic.com/33c3gyg.jpg
    Last edited by Arcshayde; 08-31-2011 at 04:21 AM.
    Shayde@Seastone

  15. #30
    RIFT Guide Writer Hokonoso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arcshayde View Post
    Reactive abilities hit harder than core ability crits. Working as intended?

    http://i53.tinypic.com/33c3gyg.jpg
    master archer ignores valor and everything else, it is how hard all our attacks would hit if valor was removed...

    but yes, most likely a bug that either wont get fixed, or will and hurt rogues even more.

    either way, todays hotfix kills rogues, only salvation for a rogue right now is the ability to hit R8 and do pve in R8 gear...
    Useful Rogue guides since I don't want to answer 50 billion questions anymore:
    Marksman, Ranger, Nightblade, Blink'Blade, Asstalker, Assdancer, and finally The Hoko Spec™
    Hoko, teaching noobs the way of rogue pve until 12/20/11.

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