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Thread: Honest view from a different class

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jesslyn Daggerux View Post
    Warriors would cry too much and complain that they only have 2 roles, disregarding the fact that a warrior tank has the most flexibility, easiest agro managment, best raid dps buff from a tank, and currently highest st dps. They don't slack much on aoe either. I'd like to call my guild high end, and our raids consistently show the same 2 warriors as top dps with everyone else up to 500 dps or so behind if it's a fight that is melee friendly. Our mages rogues and clerics all do alot of theorycraft and read forums to try and find the best specs, but simply can not compete in a tank and gank. That's facts. The numbers I see from mages rogues and clerics all seem about right. Everyone does it different, but all usually cap out around the same dps. Our top tier people all get about the same range of dps, and the same ones consistently are doing it. And this is "fine" by warrior standards, and some even want a buff. Mages I know don't expect much to change about this dynamic.
    the entire problem with your badly formatted argument is you assume the only way to fix this is to nerf warriors and rogues instead of buffing mages and clerics - although clerics should remain at the bottom due to their versatility.

    mages should have a competitive single target dps spec, however sometimes raiders whine because there is a 100 dps difference. a 100 dps difference when we're talking about people doing 2000 dps.


    that's not a difference to care about. now if it was a 4-500 dps difference at 2k dps i would say that could use a little tweaking.

    bottom line - someone has to be on top, someone has to be on the bottom. with how warrior tanking transitions into raiding (ie. going from 1 to 5 ratio in dungeons to a 1 to 10 in small raids to 2-20 in big raids) warriros really need to maintain that top dps spot or their populations would look like mage in a few months.

  2. #17
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    And welcome to my guild leader and of the warriors I was speaking of, forsake. Getting to other concerns, I did not say nerd rogues. I feel their single target dps is where it should be. Yes, chloro can top hps chart, but that's like having top aoe dps on trash pulls. It's not as helpful as it seems. Alot of chloro heals are overheal, and alot of it is healing a scratch that doesn't need to be done. Forsake you as well as everybody knows the reason to use a chloro consists of easymode aoe healing with no mana concerns to take pressure off clerics, and to flpurist whenever there's an aoe. Thats all you need. I'm not sure how much of a hit warriors took, but it's not like a minor difference due to gear that you and swag vastly out dps (or did) everyone else, IMO if your r8 weapons were the only change and the class is fine then maybe they scale(d) too well? Outside of hk or min maxing by mixing in Pvp gear there is no further improvement I can make. Mages have up there aoe, possibly the best. I see clerk and acris not far behind honestly, and are they switching specs to do so? Because I don't see them switching. I'd have to. It's not just that warriors have or had top dps, it's top dps plus easily best tank. Both roles they can do they were the best and may still be. So let me flip the question back to you. Why should warriors be best at both? I'd like to see bm/wl changed to be a heavy suPport class. Let them have archon like buffs. Some must stack with others, some new abilities, and move spotters up higher in the tree. That way we have 1 war Mage and rogue all as support, and honestly Gax is a supPort cleric. Seems fair.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cromagis View Post
    Warriors are on par with cleric and rogue tanking

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jesslyn Daggerux View Post
    further improvement I can make. Mages have up there aoe, possibly the best. I see clerk and acris not far behind honestly, and are they switching specs to do so? Because I don't see them switching. I'd have to. It's not just that warriors have or had top dps, it's top dps plus easily best tank. Both roles they can do they were the best and may still be. So let me flip the question back to you. Why should warriors be best at both? I'd like to see bm/wl changed to be a heavy suPport class. Let them have archon like buffs. Some must stack with others, some new abilities, and move spotters up higher in the tree. That way we have 1 war Mage and rogue all as support, and honestly Gax is a supPort cleric. Seems fair.
    Warriors cannot heal.
    Warriors cannot support.
    Warriors are the worse AoE dps.
    Warriors are the best Single target dps.
    Warriors are on par with cleric and rogue tanking (A tad better than rogues in hammerknell)

    Mages are top AoE dps, you say trash pulls don't matter? What boss are you on in Hammerknell? Obviously not far enough. If you don't get past trash, you don't get to kill bosses. If your farming trash for gear, I'd rather spend 5 minutes AoEing them all at once, instead of a minute killing each one by itself.
    Your saying move spotter's order up, I thought you were complaining about DPSing and warriors being the top? sound's like your just a warrior hater over all. BTW, In your previous post I believe I said I did more dps than you in completely trash gear.. well, 1242 on dummy, full t2...1 raid drop. Whats yours? If its lower you should look for a replacement mage whoever your raid leader is. ;)
    Last edited by Cromagis; 08-27-2011 at 10:20 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rizaz View Post
    Your opinion is wrong and you should feel bad for sharing it with the world.
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  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cromagis View Post
    Warriors are on par with cleric and rogue tanking (A tad better than rogues in hammerknell)

    If you don't get past trash, you don't get to kill bosses. If your farming trash for gear, I'd rather spend 5 minutes AoEing them all at once, instead of a minute killing each one by itself.
    lol whaaa...? please listen to yourself.
    actually, let me ask you this:
    are YOU raiding hammerknell?
    Quote Originally Posted by Cromagis View Post
    Warriors are on par with cleric and rogue tanking
    Quote Originally Posted by Cromagis View Post
    Rogues can out mitigate warriors damage (And they have 1 tanking soul, go figure.)

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cromagis View Post
    Warriors are on par with cleric and rogue tanking (A tad better than rogues in hammerknell)
    Oh dear, you are serious aren't you? I just can't pick on some one that special...
    Etna - Rogue 5/5 GSB 4/4 RoS 4/4 GP 4/4 DH 10/11 HK PvP 8/8

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arzo View Post
    lol whaaa...? please listen to yourself.
    actually, let me ask you this:
    are YOU raiding hammerknell?
    4/11

    Quote Originally Posted by Sorreah View Post
    Oh dear, you are serious aren't you? I just can't pick on some one that special...
    Warriors can out-mitigate Magic damage from clerics, Rogues can out mitigate warriors damage (And they have 1 tanking soul, go figure.)

    Our main-tank is a rogue, our off-tank is swapping between rogue/warrior The cleric tank seems to excel further than both of them, most like due to the gear, cause...you can't tell anyone that cleric tank chain doesn't drop in raids.
    Last edited by Cromagis; 08-28-2011 at 09:55 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rizaz View Post
    Your opinion is wrong and you should feel bad for sharing it with the world.
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  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cromagis View Post
    4/11



    Warriors can out-mitigate Magic damage from clerics, Rogues can out mitigate warriors damage (And they have 1 tanking soul, go figure.)

    Our main-tank is a rogue, our off-tank is swapping between rogue/warrior The cleric tank seems to excel further than both of them, most like due to the gear, cause...you can't tell anyone that cleric tank chain doesn't drop in raids.

    Meant to say swapping between a cleric/warrior. All well.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rizaz View Post
    Your opinion is wrong and you should feel bad for sharing it with the world.
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  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cromagis View Post
    Warriors are on par with cleric and rogue tanking
    anything you have to say after this deserves to be ignored, just as you ignore the math of the rogues and clerics
    Quote Originally Posted by Cromagis View Post
    Warriors are on par with cleric and rogue tanking

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forsake View Post
    When will Rift players finally realize that a calling has a purpose,, it might not neccessarily be dps. Whats wrong with a warrior being top dps.. reguardless of tanking roles or only haveing 2 roles..A raid cannot function without those 3-6 healers those ,1-3 tanks and the myriad of support thats required. Someone has to fill each of these roles. If you happened to choose a class that isnt the role you wanted in a raid.. why is complaining to trion until they nerf a calling into the ground an acceptable recourse?
    Because Trion marketed Rift as a game where classes would have multiple roles and not be pigeonholed. No one is saying rogues and mages should outdamage warriors. They are saying they should put out equal dps. The warrior sould are about 50/50 tank/dps. Rogues are 80% dps souls and can't match the dps of warriors?!?! So what is our role if 80% of our souls are subpar for it? I don't mind playing the bard when that is what my group needs. I do mind when the group needs DPS and I am clearly lesser than a warrior.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jesslyn Daggerux View Post
    anything you have to say after this deserves to be ignored, just as you ignore the math of the rogues and clerics
    You forgot to link your parse on a dummy, did my t2 geared mage beat your dps? P.S I did say IMO, Due to the fact that our warrior doesn't tank must. We use a cleric/rogue combo.
    Last edited by Cromagis; 08-28-2011 at 12:00 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rizaz View Post
    Your opinion is wrong and you should feel bad for sharing it with the world.
    11/11 HK(World top 10), 4/4 ROTP, Greenscale/RoS Current-Content Conqueror, GP Cleared, TDH Cleared.

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  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cromagis View Post
    Rogues can out mitigate warriors damage (And they have 1 tanking soul, go figure.)
    lawl...im making this part of my signature
    Quote Originally Posted by Cromagis View Post
    Warriors are on par with cleric and rogue tanking
    Quote Originally Posted by Cromagis View Post
    Rogues can out mitigate warriors damage (And they have 1 tanking soul, go figure.)

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arzo View Post
    lawl...im making this part of my signature
    You do realize I was talking about magic, Amirite? Obviously not or your snarky comment wouldn't make sense, Rogue Magical Mitigation > Warriors.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rizaz View Post
    Your opinion is wrong and you should feel bad for sharing it with the world.
    11/11 HK(World top 10), 4/4 ROTP, Greenscale/RoS Current-Content Conqueror, GP Cleared, TDH Cleared.

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  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cromagis View Post
    You do realize I was talking about magic, Amirite? Obviously not or your snarky comment wouldn't make sense, Rogue Magical Mitigation > Warriors.
    whatever helps you sleep at night bud.

    as to rogue magic mitigation > warrior mitigation, ill give you a quick example of why this isnt as relevant as you think:
    scene 1: rogue mitigates 2% more damage than a warrior from a spell. nice! healers are happy
    scene 2: auto attack hits the rogue for twice as much, healer's are using up all their mana to top the rogues higher hp pool! meanwhile...the raid's dps is lower?
    scene 3: rogue dies, raid wipes, gg



    also

    Quote Originally Posted by Cromagis View Post
    You forgot to link your parse on a dummy, did my t2 geared mage beat your dps?
    the dps you pull in both your mage and warrior is nothing to proud about either, its kinda funny that you're 4/11 in HK and dont realize that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cromagis View Post
    Warriors are on par with cleric and rogue tanking
    Quote Originally Posted by Cromagis View Post
    Rogues can out mitigate warriors damage (And they have 1 tanking soul, go figure.)

  14. #29
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    We have a mage pulling 1.9 -2k ST, and 3k in fights like Herald with a large AOE component.
    what is this I don't even

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by shylope View Post
    Sounds like you are competing against your own side, who cares as long as the raid mob dies who did the most dps. Stay away from those min max guilds, they are noobs.
    so, if in your guild you have 21 players wich want to do raid, how do you chose which one to kick out of your raid and which take?
    how do you rationalize it to the one left out?
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