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Thread: Macros - a DPS loss?

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    Rift Master A Mage's Avatar
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    Default Macros - a DPS loss?

    I keep hearing that macros are actually a DPS loss, and I was wondering if this was true or not. Can anyone inform me about this with proof?
    Xail - R41 Mage
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    Rift Disciple
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    On my warrior I get best dps with all off globals except rising waterfall in my main attack macro. Manual use of rising and macro the rest is best that I have tested.

    I don't see how you can quickly hit the 9 attacks and all of your situational skills fast enough to beat a macro full of instant attacks
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    Rift Master A Mage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kott0n View Post
    On my warrior I get best dps with all off globals except rising waterfall in my main attack macro. Manual use of rising and macro the rest is best that I have tested.

    I don't see how you can quickly hit the 9 attacks and all of your situational skills fast enough to beat a macro full of instant attacks
    Well, other than the insane warrior off GCD macros of course.
    Xail - R41 Mage
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    Prophet of Telara Artorous's Avatar
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    Going by your name I'd say you're a Mage, plus I've seen you post a lot in the Mage forums. It depends on the spec and what you're trying to macro together. Sometimes they can be DPS gains, like Archon and Pyro, then again some things shouldn't be macroed together, like Necro/Lock DoT's.
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    Rift Master A Mage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artorous View Post
    Going by your name I'd say you're a Mage, plus I've seen you post a lot in the Mage forums. It depends on the spec and what you're trying to macro together. Sometimes they can be DPS gains, like Archon and Pyro, then again some things shouldn't be macroed together, like Necro/Lock DoT's.
    True I am a mage, but I've got a rogue alt, and the top rogue DPSer in my guild doesn't use macros, and pulls 2k dps. Every other rogue is better geared than he is, uses macros, and pulls 150-200 less DPS than him with the same spec.
    Last edited by A Mage; 08-21-2011 at 01:20 PM.
    Xail - R41 Mage
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    Ascendant JimboTCB's Avatar
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    Mages are a bit different, because they generally have actual rotations as opposed to a priority system like most DPS specs do. As such, macros suck for them, because you can't just spam whatever comes off colldown first.

    Rogues generally do better with macros due to priority and off-GCD abilities, but the best DPS spec at the moment is Sabdancer - which is pretty strictly rotation-based (and therefore unmacroable) and also a bit of a pain to get the hang of due to the length of the rotation. Therefore it's quite easy for two rogues with the same spec and the same gear to pull wildly different DPS purely down to practising their rotation more.

  7. #7
    Prophet of Telara Artorous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by A Mage View Post
    True I am a mage, but I've got a rogue alt, and the top rogue DPSer in my guild doesn't use macros, and pulls 2k dps. Every other rogue is better geared than he is, uses macros, and pulls 150-200 less DPS than him with the same spec.
    I'd say your Rogues are doing something wrong if they are actually of equal gear levels and falling behind. I'd say something else is going on and it's not macros causing the difference. Without seeing them in action I can't be sure though.

    Edit: Oh, and it also depends on the spec as to being able to use macros for dps gains. Necro/Lock's don't need macros but a Pyro/Ele is more than capable of using them for increases.
    Last edited by Artorous; 08-21-2011 at 01:48 PM.
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    Rift Disciple Aluano's Avatar
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    Macros works well for me (dps warrior) It's not a dps loss afaik, but some different specs macros might be a dps loss eg macroing necro/lock dots as said above.

  9. #9
    Sword of Telara Chancellor Gowron's Avatar
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    Well, just think about it, it depends on the macro. A good example of something that probably shouldn't be in a macro is Censure which is on a 6 second cooldown.

    Aside from the fact that there are better and longer lasting debuffs in the same category, this ability does less damage than the spammable alternative, but on the other hand it increases the damage the target takes for 15 seconds. Since the debuff lasts much longer than the ability's cooldown and it does less damage than the basic attack you should only cast it as most every 15 seconds if at all.

    I'm not 100% on this one but I think flame bolt in a macro is a (smaller) dps loss for the same reason. It buffs your damage for 10 seconds but has an 8 second cooldown and is less dps than fireball/inferno/CB so if you can fit a cast in at the end right before the buff drops off you should get more of a benefit from it.

    Other problems are things like neddra's grasp not working on certain mobs which is bad if you have it macroed to your dark touch. Another good example is if you have something like nature's fury in your macro this might cause you to use it too early before mobs are grouped up, etc, so it only hits 1 target. Yet another example is DOTs with a cooldown (beastmasters might be a good example) might be better off using a low damage spammable for a few hits if the mob is about to die.

  10. #10
    Champion ComaEtilico's Avatar
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    actually there is a little bug with reactive skill in macros... if a reactive skill is out of cd but not avaible (example inferno out of cd but target over 30% hp) there will be a little delay before the next skill in the macro is selected...

    for pve warrior this mean that they simply have to remove from their macro reactive that proc off enemy's dodge and parry (that will never proc if they have enough hit so they are totally useless...) while keeping in the macro the "on crit reactive" that will alwayes be avaible when out of cd (1 crit every 4 sec is not that hard to achinve...)

    for rogue is the same because the only reactive that u will ever use in pve is the sin reactive on crit and this goes just like for warrior (BD reactive will never proc unless u'r the tank... )... this said a 51 point sin is not one of the best spec for pve...

    for mage this is the real problem... their only reactive (as fa as i know) is inferno... that is a reactive that proc off the target hp lvl... this mean that if u put that in your macro u will have a small delay between every skil until your target reach 30% hp... the solutin to this is to build 2 macro with the same skill but one with inferno and one without... and u start using the "inferno macro" only when your target reach the hp requirment...

    other than this... macro can be a dps loss based on some spec...

    example in a rogue spec that uses DD u should avoid a one botton macro for builder because this will lead to your strongest skill to fire ehenever their' out of gcd but u want them to fire only if their under the dd buff... so a backstab that fire as a 4th skill after dd because it just went out of cd is a dps loss because if u only wait 2 more sec it will fire with a 105% additional dmg... and so it will be a dps gain... this can be adapted to other spec tha use short duration-spammable buff... because u always want to time your best skill based on the buff efficicncy more than on their cd if it only mean to deley them for a few sec...

    other possibility of macro reducing dps is for spec that are heavy energy starved... but this is true only on dummy parse... because once u'r under fervor your additional energy starvation due to out of gcd spamm will no more be a problem (or at least a problem that is covered by the dmg of those skill)


    I hope this could help...

    remember macro are a usefull tool... but u should think well about how u write them and use them ;)
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  11. #11
    Telaran
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    You shouldn't be looking at it from the point of view of "to use macros or not".

    Some abilities macro well, and some don't. You need to look at the specific instance.

    When you have an ability on a 8sec. cooldown and another similar ability that's instant, but does less damage, there's no reason not to macro them. If you don't, then you'll do just as well if you're perfect with your timing, but have to think more, and do less dps if you do it wrong.

    Others have already given different examples of abilities that don't macro well. (i.e. a debuff that lasts longer than the CD, or abilities with long CDs that you want to save for when they're really needed). When you finish making your spec you should sit down and look at your abilities and decide what to macro. Some are easy calls as there is an obvious decision, and sometimes you need to make the choice between being a tiny bit more effective or having to think about less when you're picking abilities. (Or you can do both, and switch UI settings for easymode vs. hardcore mode).

  12. #12
    Ascendant Pixel Monkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ComaEtilico View Post
    actually there is a little bug with reactive skill in macros... if a reactive skill is out of cd but not avaible (example inferno out of cd but target over 30% hp) there will be a little delay before the next skill in the macro is selected...
    quoted for truth

    marcos lock you into a forced choice of cd's and can be pretty limiting compared to instant skills
    as said above
    Last edited by Pixel Monkey; 08-21-2011 at 07:44 PM.
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  13. #13
    Telaran
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    i have a range saboteur toon and i dont use macro either !

  14. #14
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    i dont find extensive macros necessary. i only macro a couple skills together, like fork + stonespear, fork + windspear, frost strike + searing strike. to put a whole rotation in one macro seems quite stupid to me

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    Rift Master A Mage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tarodabest View Post
    i have a range saboteur toon and i dont use macro either !
    This is actually the spec he uses no macros with.

    Can this spec even be macro-ed, or am I paranoid?
    Xail - R41 Mage
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