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Thread: What exactly is Support

  1. #1
    Rift Chaser
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    Default What exactly is Support

    So I see the Support role in 5 mans and im a little unsure what it means? is this role supposed to be part healer part DPS or just provide buffs? Which classes/Souls are good for it?

  2. #2
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    I play a support bard, which can do all three. It provides AOE healing via Cadence, buffs for major stats as well as armor, reduces the cost of abilities, the coda's can buff attack power, make it easier for the healer to heal party members. Verse of Joy is also pretty nifty. Gives mana and action point regen.

    Can't remember my backup souls off the top of my head, but definitely 51 bard.
    Last edited by bridgeburner; 08-19-2011 at 09:28 AM.

  3. #3
    Shield of Telara
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    Can a class with no support healing que as support? I've often wondered if things just buffs or debuffs only qualified. I always have a little bit or Cholromancer trained in at least one soul so it's hard for me to tell.

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    So is support who I should yell at when I die as a tank because they didn't backup heal me?

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    Shield of Telara tebhi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Djinn View Post
    So is support who I should yell at when I die as a tank because they didn't backup heal me?
    Well, I wouldn't recommend yelling at your teammates--it's a good way to get ninja'd or have ppl go *poof*. The best way to determine what happened after a wipe is to review your parser and go over the events leading up to the wipe.

    95% of the time support wouldn't be the reason for a wipe.
    Last edited by tebhi; 08-19-2011 at 09:49 AM.
    "All we had to do was follow the damn train CJ"

  6. #6
    Plane Touched
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    As far as the game mechanics and experts are concerned, support means off heals. Back in the day (funny to say that about a game so new) you actually kinda needed them on T2s, at least until you were overgeared. If for no other reason than that there were any number of mechanics (many of them borked, some are still borked but it doesn't matter anymore) that could take the healer out of play more than long enough for the tank to get beat into the ground.

    Now, since both T1s and T2s were nerfed into the ground, you barely need a main healer if your group is any good. If not, any half decent starter cleric or (thanks to class nerfs, overgeared) chloro will do, an off healer, let alone a dedicated buffer, would be a laughable waste of a slot.

    Why the need for a support role remains in the LFG long after said role was rendered an irrelevancy by content nerfs is one of those mysteries the world may never have an adequate answer for.

    Raids (well, twenty-person raids, ten-person, better known as glorified experts, not so much), of course, are a (somewhat) different kettle of fish.

  7. #7
    Plane Touched Tryns's Avatar
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    I've had this happen a couple times now and just curious if other people are seeing this. People signing up as 'support' and then DPS'ing in the dungeon.

    Now I COMPLETELY understand you don't absolutely have to have someone in the support category but if the healer/tank are having issues then support could help.

    In my situation both times the group asked the person to swap to their support spec and the person asked became angry about it.

    If I had a guess I think DPS folks are signing up as support to perhaps shorten their queue.

  8. #8
    Sword of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Myria View Post
    As far as the game mechanics and experts are concerned, support means off heals. Back in the day (funny to say that about a game so new) you actually kinda needed them on T2s, at least until you were overgeared. If for no other reason than that there were any number of mechanics (many of them borked, some are still borked but it doesn't matter anymore) that could take the healer out of play more than long enough for the tank to get beat into the ground.

    Now, since both T1s and T2s were nerfed into the ground, you barely need a main healer if your group is any good. If not, any half decent starter cleric or (thanks to class nerfs, overgeared) chloro will do, an off healer, let alone a dedicated buffer, would be a laughable waste of a slot.

    Why the need for a support role remains in the LFG long after said role was rendered an irrelevancy by content nerfs is one of those mysteries the world may never have an adequate answer for.

    Raids (well, twenty-person raids, ten-person, better known as glorified experts, not so much), of course, are a (somewhat) different kettle of fish.
    well said.

    when i go into a t2 I click support because thats required by the tool, but 90% of the time they want me to dps instead.

    consequently my 51 pt bard which i love to play gets little action in T2's and Im still lookimgnfor a rading guildm to use him in.
    when someone requests I bard the whole t2, even the trash ...I know its gonna be a bad run.

  9. #9
    Ascendant Mulch's Avatar
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    Bard counts.

    Chloro and Archon count.

    Deep spec into Justicar (a tanking tree) counts.

    Bard and Archon buff and debuff, plus a bit of buff from Chloro.

    Bard, Chloro, and Justicar paired with other things give group heals

    It's not necessary, nor sufficient to have a buffing soul to qualify as support. It is necessary to have a group-heal soul, but not too-much group heal.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tryns View Post
    I've had this happen a couple times now and just curious if other people are seeing this. People signing up as 'support' and then DPS'ing in the dungeon.

    Now I COMPLETELY understand you don't absolutely have to have someone in the support category but if the healer/tank are having issues then support could help.

    In my situation both times the group asked the person to swap to their support spec and the person asked became angry about it.

    If I had a guess I think DPS folks are signing up as support to perhaps shorten their queue.
    I would never become angry about it, but when they ask I know they are tn experienced with the instance or prorperly geared/speced. im happy to do it anyway and give the run a try.

    I click dps and suport, usually when its time to enter I have to click support because the tool requires it.
    I always ask first thing, do you want bard or dps? evne tho I know the best and fastest way to complete the instance is to simply dps...i still ask and am not angred if I am aksed to support.

    my experience is that support is useless for things like "guys you gotta break those crytsals"..."dont stand in the aoe circles!!"..."how come I keep dying?"..and the heals/buffs just arent usually needed

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chovie View Post
    well said.

    when i go into a t2 I click support because thats required by the tool, but 90% of the time they want me to dps instead.

    consequently my 51 pt bard which i love to play gets little action in T2's and Im still lookimgnfor a rading guildm to use him in.
    when someone requests I bard the whole t2, even the trash ...I know its gonna be a bad run.
    On my bard, I usually go in assuming I am going to back up heal unless the healer tells me otherwise or I get through the first few pulls and determine that it won't be an issue. A lot of times, I'll dps on the trash and bard on the bosses.

    On my cleric, I ask for back up heals at first until feel like i have a solid undertsanding of the group, and then I can tell me support we are good. She's a lowbie, tho, so hard to know.

    If you q as support, be prepared to support. Don't q as support and only dps.. although it maybe that is what you are going to do.

    Support makes the group better. How support does that is going to depend on the group and the fight.

  12. #12
    Shield of Telara tebhi's Avatar
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    I queue as dps and support. If I get a dungeon as support, first thing that I do is look at the healer and tank's gear. If the healer has healing/absorbing greaters and the tank inst in blue/green stuff, I go dps until the group actually needs support.

    If the healer doesn't have healing/absorbing greaters and the tank is in green/blue gear then I know it's gonna be a long run and that I'm gonna be strumming away on my lute
    "All we had to do was follow the damn train CJ"

  13. #13
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    Support no matter what game you are playing isnt just off healing or buffs and debuffs. I do play support often on my rogue as bard. But im only 28 points into it mixed with a few points into nightblade for boosted non-physical hits and sab just as heavy as bard.

    The way I see it is even if i went full spec into bard there is no way I would cause the group to win because of my small heals. If the tank and healer cant do that then they cant win anyways.

    But with my sab soul included in my bard im able to snare enemies to keep them with the tank so others dont get hit allowing the tank longer time to build aggro. Also using stuns dots and any other AOE dmg that comes with it. I have found that those two souls (bard & sab) mix well so that i can do dmg if group is doing fine and i needed i can support with heals if an accident happens. No need to wait for combat to chance so i can and by that point its lost.

  14. #14
    Ascendant
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    Support is the undefined 5th man. You will provide extra heals when needed, buffs if the party wants it, or full DPS if the healer can handle it. You will always put out damage though.
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  15. #15
    RIFT Community Ambassador the_real_seebs's Avatar
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    Support is pretty much exactly what it sounds like: Making other characters better. Basically, characters that work by making their allies tougher and/or their enemies weaker. Not restricted to backup heals, and some support builds have zero healing. If you don't see how this could be useful, get into a CoH group with traps/, cold/, sonic/, and ff/ defenders on a team some time.

    RIFT has pretty anemic support options thus far, so they also take "backup heals" as a substitute for support, but a 51-point archon with no healing at all is still a pretty amazing character for a group to have.

    FWIW, some people say it's not very useful in 5-mans, but my impression has been that well-played support is a great thing to have. I just wish RIFT had more proper buff/debuff options.
    You can play WoW in any MMO. You don't have to play WoW in RIFT. Oh, and no, RIFT is not a WoW clone. Not having fun any more? Learn to play, noob! I don't speak for Riftui, but I moderate stuff there. Just came back? Welcome back! Here's what's changed. (Updated for 2.5!)

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