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Thread: The penalty of being a ranged class

  1. #1
    Rift Master Spyrit's Avatar
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    Default The penalty of being a ranged class

    There's some questions to the devs that need to be posed. Why is it that dots don't begin to tick asap when they hit their target? (there's a one second delay, longer if there is client / server lag). Why is there huge hang time on spells casted to reach there mark? (clinet/server lag can lengthen that time).

    Not only does a caster have to deal with spell cast times, but a delay in hitting our mark, that's subject to lag. Ranged seem to suffer more than necessary in movement heavy fights, not only due to lengthy casts, but lag as well. These are things that need to be addressed, ranged dps should not be so far behind melee, even in melee favored fights.

    Dots should be ticking immediately after applied, not 1-2 seconds after the fact. This is what is hurting ranged dps, hang time, why do we have this penalty?

  2. #2
    Plane Touched
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spyrit View Post
    Dots should be ticking immediately after applied, not 1-2 seconds after the fact.
    All DoT's have a direct damage component as well that does it's damage directly on hit. Having the DoT portion begin immediately as well would be like having 2 hits on top of each other. I doubt that's what the developers intended.

  3. #3
    Ascendant
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    I think trion is actually one of the few MMO developers who have gotten ranged DPS right.
    It shouldn't be competitive with meleeing. When you think about it, one of the most universal cliche difficulty mods for mmo fights is to make close-range more dangerous. Ranged DPS automatically get a pass on this lame difficulty feature inherent to MMOs.

    They need to pay for that advantage somehow, otherwise, there is no point in meleeing. And that is the case with too many MMOs.

    Ranged fighters classically argue that they deserve to dps just as well because they're more squishy, but in fact they are more sturdy. They don't get hit with any close-quarter abilities. Meleers do. In fact, it's the meleers who are defensively weaker, if only because they don't have a choice not to get hit with these common stereotypical MMORPG attacks.

    In my opinion, ranged DPS pay appropriately for the advantage of their large hit boxes and attack range mitigation.

    If Trion can make ranged DPS less frustrating, sure. But more powerful? Don't think it's fair.

  4. #4
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by PFalcon View Post
    I think trion is actually one of the few MMO developers who have gotten ranged DPS right.
    It shouldn't be competitive with meleeing. When you think about it, one of the most universal cliche difficulty mods for mmo fights is to make close-range more dangerous. Ranged DPS automatically get a pass on this lame difficulty feature inherent to MMOs.

    They need to pay for that advantage somehow, otherwise, there is no point in meleeing. And that is the case with too many MMOs.

    Ranged fighters classically argue that they deserve to dps just as well because they're more squishy, but in fact they are more sturdy. They don't get hit with any close-quarter abilities. Meleers do. In fact, it's the meleers who are defensively weaker, if only because they don't have a choice not to get hit with these common stereotypical MMORPG attacks.

    In my opinion, ranged DPS pay appropriately for the advantage of their large hit boxes and attack range mitigation.

    If Trion can make ranged DPS less frustrating, sure. But more powerful? Don't think it's fair.
    Except meele in this game have high damage reduction, null, break free and range closing abilities. If I have lower dps due to my range, then give me more range to make up for it. Because right now my range increase does not match my dps decrease.

    Oh, are we counting sabo? Because they have the highest aoe dps bar none.
    Last edited by ZykeZero; 08-17-2011 at 06:40 AM.

  5. #5
    Plane Touched
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    I nearly sprayed my coffee all over my monitor in laughter when I read the title of this thread. Are you talking about the penalty for ranged DPS in PvE where the overwhelming majority of the boss encounters are extremely melee unfriendly, or are you talking about the penalty in PvP where *I* have to come to *YOU* while you get to do damage to me the entire time?

  6. #6
    Champion Karny's Avatar
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    The majority of instanced PvE content in Rift is infamously melee-unfriendly. I'm not sure what you are griping about, you get to stand back, wave your hand and damage things. Gift horse in the mouth, looking it.

  7. #7
    Rift Chaser extinction's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PFalcon View Post
    I think trion is actually one of the few MMO developers who have gotten ranged DPS right.
    It shouldn't be competitive with meleeing. When you think about it, one of the most universal cliche difficulty mods for mmo fights is to make close-range more dangerous. Ranged DPS automatically get a pass on this lame difficulty feature inherent to MMOs.

    They need to pay for that advantage somehow, otherwise, there is no point in meleeing. And that is the case with too many MMOs.

    Ranged fighters classically argue that they deserve to dps just as well because they're more squishy, but in fact they are more sturdy. They don't get hit with any close-quarter abilities. Meleers do. In fact, it's the meleers who are defensively weaker, if only because they don't have a choice not to get hit with these common stereotypical MMORPG attacks.

    In my opinion, ranged DPS pay appropriately for the advantage of their large hit boxes and attack range mitigation.

    If Trion can make ranged DPS less frustrating, sure. But more powerful? Don't think it's fair.
    since when did being a brute with a big axe give you more power than a sorcerer who incinerates things with fireballs?

    also this game doesn't have enough melee hindering mechanics that doesn't also hinder ranged to make your argument valid

    look at me im a melee i can spam 3 buttons and stack on the *** of the boss while doing highest dps

    look at me im a ranged doing a complex rotation that with any movement ****s up my dps and i already do subpar damage, did i mention i get hit by 60% of the mechanics melee does?

    being ranged in this game is a joke.
    Last edited by extinction; 08-17-2011 at 10:19 AM.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by extinction View Post
    did i mention i get hit by 60% of the mechanics melee does?
    Precisely. You have quite a bit less to deal with.

  9. #9
    Ascendant Cromagis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZykeZero View Post
    Except meele in this game have high damage reduction, null, break free and range closing abilities. If I have lower dps due to my range, then give me more range to make up for it. Because right now my range increase does not match my dps decrease.
    Except for most of these don't work on boss mechanics e.g stun removals and ect. And armor doesn't mean anything in RIFT unless your tanking. Every class will get 1shot if they pull aggro on a boss in a raid. quite simple
    Quote Originally Posted by Rizaz View Post
    Your opinion is wrong and you should feel bad for sharing it with the world.
    11/11 HK(World top 10), 4/4 ROTP, Greenscale/RoS Current-Content Conqueror, GP Cleared, TDH Cleared.

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  10. #10
    Rift Master Guaritor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heguo View Post
    Precisely. You have quite a bit less to deal with.
    I press well over 60% more buttons then you do. We already make up for avoiding some mechanics, by having cast times (can't attack while moving), and more complicated rotations. DPS should be equal.

    Now, having gotten the ideology out of the way... at the moment, I compete quite well with our melee classes on dps, genreally being 1st-4th on the meters depending on how badly I screw up my rotation.

    So yeah, I think trion has it right, our dps is competitive, thats all I ask for.

  11. #11
    Plane Touched
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    Competitive DPS for all callings is good for the game and good for the players so you won't get me arguing with you there.

  12. #12
    Telaran Zarokima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heguo View Post
    the penalty in PvP where *I* have to come to *YOU* while you get to do damage to me the entire time?
    Sure is hard to hit that charge/teleport button, ain't it?

  13. #13
    Ascendant Cromagis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarokima View Post
    Sure is hard to hit that charge/teleport button, ain't it?
    gimping your dps, and survivability for it is hard, ain't it?
    Quote Originally Posted by Rizaz View Post
    Your opinion is wrong and you should feel bad for sharing it with the world.
    11/11 HK(World top 10), 4/4 ROTP, Greenscale/RoS Current-Content Conqueror, GP Cleared, TDH Cleared.

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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by PFalcon View Post
    I think trion is actually one of the few MMO developers who have gotten ranged DPS right.
    It shouldn't be competitive with meleeing. When you think about it, one of the most universal cliche difficulty mods for mmo fights is to make close-range more dangerous. Ranged DPS automatically get a pass on this lame difficulty feature inherent to MMOs.

    They need to pay for that advantage somehow, otherwise, there is no point in meleeing. And that is the case with too many MMOs.

    Ranged fighters classically argue that they deserve to dps just as well because they're more squishy, but in fact they are more sturdy. They don't get hit with any close-quarter abilities. Meleers do. In fact, it's the meleers who are defensively weaker, if only because they don't have a choice not to get hit with these common stereotypical MMORPG attacks.

    In my opinion, ranged DPS pay appropriately for the advantage of their large hit boxes and attack range mitigation.

    If Trion can make ranged DPS less frustrating, sure. But more powerful? Don't think it's fair.
    Stop standing in front of the boss (l2p), there's nothing that just hits melee besides cleaves for the most part. Also there's just as much **** that requires you to be close to the boss to not get hit or is just random ground junk, and either way it penalizes cast times the most.

  15. #15
    Rift Master Arcticred's Avatar
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    Last edited by Arcticred; 08-17-2011 at 03:30 PM.
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