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Thread: Can't find a Tank?

  1. #1
    Shadowlander
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    Default Can't find a Tank?

    Ok so now I understand how all you other tanks feel and why no one ever wants to tank. I'm not new to "tanking" (previous MMOs) but even with previous experience you still have to get a feel for what works best as you level. The group I was in wiped 8 times and then kicked me from group. It would seem everything is always the tanks fault.

    Of the 8 wipes only 1 was directly my fault. Actually, all 8 of the wipes could solidly be blamed on the chloro mage who signed up as support but decided he'd rather dps. Funny thing is, he was the most critical jack@%^ in the group. I kept asking him to synthesis me and never got an answer. But he was sure quick to criticize everyone else in the group. I suppose since he'd done the dungeon "100s" of times, according to him, he didn't think it was necessary to actually play the role he signed up for. Go figure.

    The thing I have learned from this experience is I need to know everyone elses roles so I can point out to the rest of the group... hey, didn't you notice the "support" mage is in pyro spec? I'm pretty sure it was the mage who initiated the kick. I guess the rest of the group just wasn't intelligent enough to figure out where the real problem was.

  2. #2
    Prophet of Telara Vexille's Avatar
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    This is one of the glaring areas where the transition from the "old way" of MMOS to the autobahn approach in games like WoW and Rift broke down.

    It used to be that every role had some level of importance and responsibility.

    But in order to expand the appeal/accessibility of the genre to the masses, the complexity of play had to be reduced (drastically).

    The approach that has become standard has been the complete auto-pilot of DPS classes (because far more people are interested in playing DPS classes), greatly reducing healing and totally eliminating the need for CC and support classes.

    This leaves the tank holding the bag for the vast majority of leadership, responsibility and, unfortunately, accountability for a groups success.

    Don't expect this format to change - there's too much $$ at stake.

  3. #3
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    Keep in mind some tanks are part of the problem. I mean if you go over to the warrior thread you hear some warrior tanks saying they expect every tank to to know ever fight of every dungeon, to watch youtube videos of the dungeon runs, know how each pull is supposed to happen, know which groups have what sort of mobs in them... all before they ever step foot into the instance to tank it.

    It's no wonder there is a shortage of tanks. I got less homework from my college Calc classes then people are expecting warriors to do just to play a game.

  4. #4
    Rift Disciple ce2flaco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TechnoMage View Post
    Keep in mind some tanks are part of the problem. I mean if you go over to the warrior thread you hear some warrior tanks saying they expect every tank to to know ever fight of every dungeon, to watch youtube videos of the dungeon runs, know how each pull is supposed to happen, know which groups have what sort of mobs in them... all before they ever step foot into the instance to tank it.

    It's no wonder there is a shortage of tanks. I got less homework from my college Calc classes then people are expecting warriors to do just to play a game.
    THIS!


    If a game is that demanding then it's not a "game" anymore. I rarely tank random as it becomes a lesson infrustration trying not to piss people off.

  5. #5
    Ascendant jadakin's Avatar
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    Basically tanks are tired of being maids and having to pick up after all the DPS sloppy playing. Combine that with some healers whom refuse to single target heal because it requires more work.

    See healers would rather just spam AoE heals while they multi-task. DPS is too concerned looking at their parser to pay attention that they miss tab targeted another group.

    Another thing DPS like to do is the game within the game. Here's how it works. DPS does as much damage to a mob as possible. They get aggro and keep doing damage. They die and get mad. But they're not really mad. Here's why. They want the entire group to know that they are such a DPS baddy that they can pull threat. They also want to have competition for threat with the tank. They expect the tank to save them no matter what. It use to be that DPS would stop attacking and let the tank get threat again. It's not the case anymore. They just pile on so they feel awesome about themselves.

    You're not finding tanks because this is what the MMO community has become. Tanks want healers that will heal single target. They don't want to be your nannies or tour guide leading through a dungeon while you face roll. They play the game for fun too and picking up after someone's sloppy playing isn't fun to most.

    Here's a tip for LFG and trying to find a tank. Tanks run with a majority of their own group because they want DPS that won't make their job harder. They want healers they can rely on. They might leave one maybe two spots open for a PuG. So if you have more than one person in your party queuing up, that might be why you're not getting a tank.

  6. #6
    Plane Touched Techjunkie's Avatar
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    Default torn here

    I agree and don't agree which is weird for me because I am usually pretty one sided...

    As a tank I do find it absolutely paramount that I know what type of mobs are what. What the encounter consists of. I do watch youtube videos of fights and try to understand beforehand what happens and when.

    At the same time I can see this is intimidating for the casual kind of mindset. You as a tank will be looked upon as the lead. But no not every wipe and mishap is your fault. DPS too low possible fail, DPS pulling possible fail, HPS low possible fail, and the classic standing in fire absolute fail.

    With this said though if they look at you to be the leader and tanks are in demand AND you are doing the right thing use that to make sure it goes right. DPS causing the wipes then vkick them if they don't respond. Group barking at you then fine let them vkick you and rejoin the queue looking for the almost non-existant tank.

    This is where your knowledge of the dungeon comes into play. You can't very well hold them accountable if you yourself do not know what is needed. Ask them what they are doing it may not be that they are doing the wrong thing necessarily but may be doing it wrong with your tanking style. Different tanks tank differently explain what your doing as well.

    Tanks most likely will never be without the ability to find groups. It is beneficial to them to work through it as well.
    Warhammer refugee, ASP, Psychobillee, Yoshimoto, Atromos, Mongolian
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaelfear View Post
    For too long now the foundation of class change has been to nerf... Warriors have been hit hard with the nerf bat in every single patch now, you want to talk about crutches, you should include them in the epic drop tables of raid dungeons, at this rate we'll need em.

  7. #7
    Rift Disciple bluebacker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nuvana View Post
    Ok so now I understand how all you other tanks feel and why no one ever wants to tank. I'm not new to "tanking" (previous MMOs) but even with previous experience you still have to get a feel for what works best as you level. The group I was in wiped 8 times and then kicked me from group. It would seem everything is always the tanks fault.

    Of the 8 wipes only 1 was directly my fault. Actually, all 8 of the wipes could solidly be blamed on the chloro mage who signed up as support but decided he'd rather dps. Funny thing is, he was the most critical jack@%^ in the group. I kept asking him to synthesis me and never got an answer. But he was sure quick to criticize everyone else in the group. I suppose since he'd done the dungeon "100s" of times, according to him, he didn't think it was necessary to actually play the role he signed up for. Go figure.

    The thing I have learned from this experience is I need to know everyone elses roles so I can point out to the rest of the group... hey, didn't you notice the "support" mage is in pyro spec? I'm pretty sure it was the mage who initiated the kick. I guess the rest of the group just wasn't intelligent enough to figure out where the real problem was.

    Welcome to cross-server LFD. Be rude little **** and no worries.

  8. #8
    Plane Walker
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    The problem i find is for every 1 tank there are 40 dps and of those 40 dps there are 20 that shouldn't even be doing t2 but they just BARELY meet the requirements with their 19 dps weapons.

    That drives me more mad than tanks in general. But i am a healer and its obvious when things are dead slow and things are fast due to good and bad dps.

  9. #9
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    Many people in MMOs these days have the patience of a 4 year old. Quite frankly, that is why my hubby and I stopped doing the tank/healer combo in WoW and subsequently Rift. I'm tired of the blame game when something goes wrong in a group. People forget about teamwork and are quick to lay the blame on either the tank or healer--for everything.

    Heaven forbid if you are a tank and don't know every fight. Or if the heals of a healer can't keep that trigger happy DPS alive. Woe to you if you are a new healer and perhaps need a bit of help during the fights. Just not worth the aggravation.

    I do feel that people have somewhat lost the notion that games are supposed to be fun. Now when you queue for a dungeon, everyone seems to be on a time table in the group. Heck even a group I was in with guidies started b*tching that the DPS was too low on the trash mobs and to speed it up (with combat parsers being posted on a frequent basis) in a T1 dungeon. I guess that we were taking too much time.

  10. #10
    Ascendant jadakin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Linmora View Post
    Many people in MMOs these days have the patience of a 4 year old. Quite frankly, that is why my hubby and I stopped doing the tank/healer combo in WoW and subsequently Rift. I'm tired of the blame game when something goes wrong in a group. People forget about teamwork and are quick to lay the blame on either the tank or healer--for everything.

    Heaven forbid if you are a tank and don't know every fight. Or if the heals of a healer can't keep that trigger happy DPS alive. Woe to you if you are a new healer and perhaps need a bit of help during the fights. Just not worth the aggravation.

    I do feel that people have somewhat lost the notion that games are supposed to be fun. Now when you queue for a dungeon, everyone seems to be on a time table in the group. Heck even a group I was in with guidies started b*tching that the DPS was too low on the trash mobs and to speed it up (with combat parsers being posted on a frequent basis) in a T1 dungeon. I guess that we were taking too much time.
    This is sad. You build up your DPS and a lot of it has to deal with gear. T1 is where you supposed to be getting that gear. If your guildies are saying that to you and the leadership doesn't care, I would find a new guild. They don't sound very mature.

  11. #11
    Ascendant titansgrip's Avatar
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    The entire support role is thoroughly ****ed up.

    I have been on runs with the occasional mage who is deep enough in Cholro to provide some dumbfire G-Healing or Archon for a few key buffs. Yet I have yet to be on a single PUG LFG run where a rogue is supporting. Even if his DPS is awful and the support would be an overall increase to the expediency of the run.

    There is no way to fix this without taking away player options. Which isn't going to ever happen.

    Essentially, most folks are worthless. Just deal with it or only run a premade.
    Last edited by titansgrip; 08-16-2011 at 01:26 PM.

  12. #12
    Shadowlander
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    Quote Originally Posted by Techjunkie View Post
    I agree and don't agree which is weird for me because I am usually pretty one sided...

    As a tank I do find it absolutely paramount that I know what type of mobs are what. What the encounter consists of. I do watch youtube videos of fights and try to understand beforehand what happens and when.

    At the same time I can see this is intimidating for the casual kind of mindset. You as a tank will be looked upon as the lead. But no not every wipe and mishap is your fault. DPS too low possible fail, DPS pulling possible fail, HPS low possible fail, and the classic standing in fire absolute fail.

    With this said though if they look at you to be the leader and tanks are in demand AND you are doing the right thing use that to make sure it goes right. DPS causing the wipes then vkick them if they don't respond. Group barking at you then fine let them vkick you and rejoin the queue looking for the almost non-existant tank.

    This is where your knowledge of the dungeon comes into play. You can't very well hold them accountable if you yourself do not know what is needed. Ask them what they are doing it may not be that they are doing the wrong thing necessarily but may be doing it wrong with your tanking style. Different tanks tank differently explain what your doing as well.

    Tanks most likely will never be without the ability to find groups. It is beneficial to them to work through it as well.
    I didn't go into much detail but I do have a lvl 50 Chloro mage healer (and I'm a darn good one too). My lack of knowledge of the dungeons is more because I leveled so quickly and the LFD tool was so broken, that I never did any of the earlier dungeons I'm running into now with my tank. While I do agree with what you say, it isn't pertinent to the situation I experienced. So you will understand why, here is the reason for all 8 wipes.

    1. Wipe #1 was my fault. I was a little nervous (I'll admit) and forgot about a pat that comes up from behind.

    2. The "Chloro" mage decides they want to pull instead of the tank. (And no, I wasn't taking all day pulling).

    3. I die due to lack of healing. No over pull, no mobbies attacking the other group members, heals aren't there (keep in mind, chloro mage is playing as pyro).

    4. I die due to lack of healing. See #3.

    5. DPS accidentally backs into a pack of mobs standing behind a rock that he didn't see.

    6. "Chloro" mage decides he wants to be puller again.

    7. See #6 above.

    8. Finally we make it to the first boss. I pull the boss, we start fighting, I die due to lack of heals.

    In not a single one of the situations was the lack of healing due to mobs attacking the healer or the support person. Well, since there wasn't really a "support" person because they decided to DPS instead...

    I haven't been at Rift very long but when you see a "dungeon tool" putting groups together as 1 tank, 1 Heal, 2 DPS & 1 Support, its pretty obvious the game has been designed around each person playing the role they signed up to play.

  13. #13
    Plane Walker Sadasius's Avatar
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    HAHAHA Welcome to the world of tanking. I have been tanking for some time on many MMO's and I will tell you that it is no different in any game you go to. The tank is in charge of pulls but you will always get the people who will;

    1) Not wait till you have full hate on groups.

    2) Guarantee they will pull at mobs you are not hitting.

    3) Hit mobs not even in the general area. Famous tab targeting issues. Many oopsies by this alone from rangers, huntards etc.

    4) Healers....ah yes the one's who never fail and the quickest to criticize. Ever hear this one "You are taking way too much damage. You must have a wrong spec or something." ? Yeah none of us tanks ever heard this line from a healer who does not know how to heal. Let's see Pally, Void and Reaver is a pretty good spec for tanking. Especially well placed points in the tree. Still you will get griefed by healers a great deal.

    5) People who drop group because they do not have enough time to do the dungeon.

    6) People who do not know the fights but will say nothing when asked if they know it or not and then die in the fire and blame others. Priceless!

    7) The one's who claim to have done fights 100's of times and die in the simple mechanic. Awesome!

    Tanks do not get thanked and are criticized more then any other person on average in all dungeons. People fail to realize that it takes a great deal of skill to be a tank as well as a great deal of patience. As tanks though you should expect the absolute worst when signing up for randoms and expect them all to be jerks. That way anything else is just gravy. However if you hate doing randoms then just stick to guild runs.

  14. #14
    Ascendant titansgrip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Linmora View Post
    Heaven forbid if you are a tank and don't know every fight. Or if the heals of a healer can't keep that trigger happy DPS alive. Woe to you if you are a new healer and perhaps need a bit of help during the fights. Just not worth the aggravation.
    The rest of your post is right on, I agree with ya for the most part. Except this.

    T1/2s are no longer progression content. Not taking the time to study the dungeons or the dynamics of the fight is willful incompetence or ignorance. Regardless of role.

    I understand not everyone keeps the dungeon running encyclopedia next to their monitor. But it can be a bit much to assume everyone else is responsible for teaching a newbie how to play or be prepared.

    Don't misunderstand, I am not speaking of you personally. I am speaking to notion that players can walk into an area and expect to be taught at the expense of others.

    Personal accountability for one's spec, strategy, itemization and attentiveness needs to happen.

  15. #15
    Telaran
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    Most people would prefer to dps. Few want to tank/heal and have to babysit those who stand in fire and find every other possible way to take avoidable damage. It's the biggest issue to the holy trinity of MMO's.

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