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Thread: Mages need a true Glass Cannon/skill req'd class

  1. #1
    Rift Disciple
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    Default Mages need a true Glass Cannon/skill req'd class

    Mages need a skill req'd class. In previous mmo's I've played Mages have the highest skill cap. A cap that few reach. This class is often a Glass cannon when it comes to teamplay. It is a class that if it avoids tab targetting and being focused in anyway can destroy entire teams. It is a class that has to work hard to make sure people don't attack it but if it is successful then it completely destroys the other team.

    Pyro was a steel cannon at first. However the red orb and its dmg mit was taken. It then became a class that was a true glass cannon. I was in many wf's where the other team had 6+ pyros and they lost horribly. Why was this so (even though many were high ranked)? It was because pyro was a great class when you were not pressured, however if you were pressured then you needed skill to still destroy the other team.

    People thought it was OP still as if the pyro was not pressured then the pyro even if unskilled would top charts. This is obvious. You are a glass CANNON. If you are not attacked you will destroy teams. However, this was in matches where the team with the "OP" pyro was going to win with or without the "OP" pyro. Most people couldn't understand this though.

    Why was I always double dmg and kbs even when pressured? Because it is what i'm good at and have experience at. Other pyros would fail when pressured but when you avoid the tab targetting etc. then you had great success. This was fun and challenging. When I ****ed up I got ***** instantly as I should have.

    However Trion is in it for a profit, as they should be, and so players don't want awareness checks and they don't want cannons of any sort. It is sad really as it is an awesome mage spec and it should be allowed. Now before ppl say l2p my pyro can still top charts on kbs and dmg. I am usually a huge huge threat in mmos though and I can tell from my other classes that pyro is weak now. Most people agree now as well. Another thing to think about is Pyro if properly balanced should be though of as OP. Glass cannons are always thought of as OP since good players really really destroy people.

    Chloro/lock is great now as is chloro/dom, however these specs are so easy and boring. The skill cap to chloro/lock is super super low. The skill cap to chloro/dom is much higher, however for the most part it is easy to perform well with. I am tired of these specs. They top charts easy sure but they are easy like war and MM. They require very little skill and are boring. chloro/lock mainly is just a few buttons, knowing when to go in for aoe and/or tanking and little else.

    Many people play war for simple and fun gameplay and the same is for rogues (except sin in some games requires skill). Many people play mage for the same reason but there is actually a large number of mage players that are engineers like me who like challenging gameplay and a high skill cap. Please give us this.
    Last edited by Raika25; 08-12-2011 at 09:16 PM.

  2. #2
    Plane Walker Boltswiki's Avatar
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    Stormcaller.
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    SC can do well of course and does have some skill but SC is not a true glass cannon. If you really look at the class and don't understand this then idc about your opinion

  4. #4
    Shadowlander
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boltswiki View Post
    Stormcaller.
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    Ascendant Robes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raika25 View Post
    SC can do well of course and does have some skill but SC is not a true glass cannon. If you really look at the class and don't understand this then idc about your opinion
    And if you don't care about other peoples opinions, why should people care about yours?
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  6. #6
    Shield of Telara
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    Nope OP.

    No glass cannons allowed. Really funny you ask for this when Trion just nerfed the **** out of any high damage warrior spec.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sweet View Post
    We’re generally happy with the current state of Warriors and are continuing to monitor a number of smaller issues involving them.
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  7. #7
    Shield of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatalflaw View Post
    Nope OP.

    No glass cannons allowed. Really funny you ask for this when Trion just nerfed the **** out of any high damage warrior spec.
    Seriously they hardly nerfed the **** out of the warrior class... or maybe your not reading the same patch notes as everyone else... because all I saw was 5% here, 10% there... thats hardly ****.

    50% nerf in Cabalist dmg from one skill is nerfed to *****.
    What pyromancers got was a nerf to *****.
    Hell even Dominators were nerfed to *****, then buffed then nerfed back to *****.

    So no Warriors havent been nerfed to *****, in fact they have had it good for far too long.

  8. #8
    Prophet of Telara
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    It used to be SC in PvP, but Valor has pretty much killed it.

  9. #9
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    I really think 34DOM/32SC is a pretty fantastic glass cannon class once you get a hang of its ability list, its downfall is that its squishy and runs out of mana relatively quickly but it has tons of tools to carry momentum in a warfront.

    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=1z...Mrk.V0xtbtsobo

    AOE DMG
    You have all the basic stormcaller stuff like Lightning Storm, Lightning Field (charged field), Forked LIghtning as well as your hypo aoes- arctic blast and hailstorm, and then the dominator aoes storm shackle and traitorous influence

    CC and Defense
    you have Arresting presence and reflecting presence which are devastating buffers to aoes in group combat and mass exhaustion, as well as single target transmorgify as a setup and to help buffer cast times (shackle, mass exhustion, and arctic blast/hailstorm esp), death's edict, and various roots, and snares from sc and dom.
    Static Barrier which is great for a preemptive rogue defense.
    Ride the Wind which is an excellent getaway tool and kiting tool and Icy vortex which has some use as a snare and dmg reduction, reflective command if you can predict single target high dmg spells
    Break free

    Debuffs and Mana Drains
    Void Shroud and Incompetence to take out healers, as well as accelerated decay
    Transference against rogues/warriors
    Mana Wrench against mages/clerics

    Single Target
    You have most of the relevant sc dmg upgrades and the sc single target rotation:
    Raging Storm - Ice Shear - Cloudburst - Lightning Bolt add in Storm Shackle from dominator
    and then on cd you have Static Discharge plus Split Personality, which is insane burst dmg while it is up, remember static discharge applies to all of your pets.

    Its not as survivable as some builds such as chlorolock and chlorodom imo, but I must say this is a very fun build to use, if you can get used to it. I always feel like I have tons of options in any situation
    Last edited by Inixia; 08-13-2011 at 10:27 PM.

  10. #10
    Rift Chaser Garethe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jereome View Post
    Seriously they hardly nerfed the **** out of the warrior class... or maybe your not reading the same patch notes as everyone else... because all I saw was 5% here, 10% there... thats hardly ****.

    50% nerf in Cabalist dmg from one skill is nerfed to *****.
    What pyromancers got was a nerf to *****.
    Hell even Dominators were nerfed to *****, then buffed then nerfed back to *****.

    So no Warriors havent been nerfed to *****, in fact they have had it good for far too long.
    Weapon Spec, Tot5R, BlTR, SLI etc are all additive buffs, that most dps warriors have multiple of. These were all nerfed in addition to the base dmg of skills.

    I realize that actually reading patch notes is hard.
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  11. #11
    Plane Touched
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garethe View Post
    Weapon Spec, Tot5R, BlTR, SLI etc are all additive buffs, that most dps warriors have multiple of. These were all nerfed in addition to the base dmg of skills.

    I realize that actually reading patch notes is hard.
    I agree that warriors got a bit of a nerf I was in there last night on my warrior just to see how different it was, I don't pvp really just can't get excited about it anymore. But it was no where near the nerf to mages in 1.3.

  12. #12
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    Ya dom/sc is a great class and i've used it and loved it. It is not a glass cannon class though. It is a mix of utility and cannon.

    What i'd love to see is a class that doesn't have that much utility and doesn't have that many methods to get away, but hits really hard. A class where you need to be great at making sure you are not a tab target of the other team and making sure you get away before someone targets you. However, if you are both left alone and ignored then many on the other team will die.

    Again though the problem with most players and their beliefs as to OP and UP is the glass cannon is a cannon. So in matches where the other team didn't have a chance anyway the glass cannon will seem very OP. However, in matches like these the other team didn't have a chance anyway. When you add a no hope match to dying to a cannon often people cry OP and I know this is understandable. However, most ppl will suck at a glass cannon class when pressured and this is where balance matters anyway.

    There was one brief period where pyro was very close to this. The red orb was gone and the dmg mit was taken. I agreed with the dmg mitnerf , however I believed the orb should affect all people equally and that its problem was that it didn't help melee out as much as mages.

    During this period 90% of even high ranked pyros sucked when the match was even or slightly not in their favor. It was great. They died easy and were no longer targets to worry about if they didn't play very well. There were many fights with multiple pyros and near even teams where the pyros did nothing. There were higher ranked MM and wars that were pressuring them as well. This was also a big problem with pyro early on was that pyros that got t2 geared quickly were really hurting low valor wars and rogues. As the wars and rogues geared up this became less of a problem.

    Of course though there were some ppl crying OP in those matches that they didn't have a chance at winning anyway and in the matches where the other team just ignored the well geared pyro, however pyro was a pretty good glass cannon. Also, on the chart in these matches the pyro would still be way way up. This is because of the cannon aspect. If you are ignored and not pressured then you should top the chart by a whole bunch. This is the crazy thing now. A good pyro now can work really hard to top the charts but it is pretty insane. In fights where a good pyro is completely ignored he obviously doesn't have the strength of a cannon anymore.

    Now a glass cannon is an awareness check and i've discussed before that most people don't like awareness checks. So I don't expect trion to make a true glass cannon anytime soon I am just getting my opinion out there and hoping to reach a few people that like more than just consistent dps vs hps matches

  13. #13
    Shield of Telara
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    The only way this would happen is if such a class got had a passive healing debuff. Healing is everything in PvP and if any class could put out the type of damage you seem to be talking about, no matter how few "oh ****" buttons they have, they will be completely overpowered with healing the way it is.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raduk View Post
    I agree that warriors got a bit of a nerf I was in there last night on my warrior just to see how different it was, I don't pvp really just can't get excited about it anymore. But it was no where near the nerf to mages in 1.3.
    You're right, it's probably worse because we have no possible way of self or group healing to contribute to team play after our damage output has been significantly decreased. I am doing less damage now with r8 weapons than I did pre-patch with r6 weapons.
    Last edited by Pines; 08-14-2011 at 08:53 PM.
    what is this I don't even

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pines View Post
    You're right, it's probably worse because we have no possible way of self or group healing to contribute to team play after our damage output has been significantly decreased. I am doing less damage now with r8 weapons than I did pre-patch with r6 weapons.
    Awww poor Pines. At least you still have your temper tantrum hack button that throws people 200 feet through or into inanimate objects whenever you die. Don't think people don't know about that crap and see it for what it is.

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