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Thread: Dear Trion: Buff Riftstalkers

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    Plane Walker Kryptyx's Avatar
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    Default Dear Trion: Buff Riftstalkers

    Looking over incoming damage yesterday against Murdantix and I noticed I was taking nearly double the damage from Murdantix's normal attack compared to our warrior. I have pretty much best in slot and have the gloves that Murdantix drops, my buffs never fell and we'd typically swap around 4 stacks.

    Some people have mentioned that Murdantix is debuffing the base armor value not the buffed value that Riftstalkers rely on when Guarded Steel is maintained. Also Rift Guard needs to scale with Dex, once you place your 51st point into Riftstalkers their main form of damage mitigation stops. I know its doubtful to see any significant changes before 1.5 but hopefully some tweaks can be made.

    The encounters are fine, the damage mitigation and lack of scaling rogue tanks have is not.
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    Shield of Telara
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    What riftstalkers need at a bare minimum is to have thier physical mitigation raised to within 10% of a warriors. The best way to do this would be to change improved guardian phase to add a percent increase to armor on the number of points invested in Riftstalker.

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    Plane Walker Kryptyx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jereome View Post
    What riftstalkers need at a bare minimum is to have thier physical mitigation raised to within 10% of a warriors. The best way to do this would be to change improved guardian phase to add a percent increase to armor on the number of points invested in Riftstalker.
    This is a pretty good idea, I don't mind taking more damage than warriors and I know warriors are more flexible tanks but taking nearly 50% more physical damage is a bit sad, especially when I'm in best in slot gear... I won't even mention what Soulrender hits me for, it was ridiculous.
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    There's another game out there somewhere that realized leather wearing classes had a hard time tanking physical damage. So they gave them a "form" to tank in that increased their armor by x amount when in said "form".

    The problem is 7 years old, and the solution is 7 years old. I'm not saying Rogues should have to actually turn into something else, but I think you get where I'm coming from.

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    RIFT Guide Writer Gyle's Avatar
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    There's another game out there somewhere that realized leather wearing classes had a hard time tanking physical damage. So they gave them a "form" to tank in that increased their armor by x amount when in said "form".

    The problem is 7 years old, and the solution is 7 years old. I'm not saying Rogues should have to actually turn into something else, but I think you get where I'm coming from.
    If you make me have to turn into a F-ing animal to tank I'm deleting my tank spec and Runebreaking all my tank gear. We already have a "form" its called guardian phase, it just doesn't do enough. What we need is a buff to mitigation that actually scales with our gear. Making some other skill that buffs us based on points in the RS tree is still not going to solve the problem, it needs to actually scale with our gear and stats.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jereome View Post
    What riftstalkers need at a bare minimum is to have thier physical mitigation raised to within 10% of a warriors. The best way to do this would be to change improved guardian phase to add a percent increase to armor on the number of points invested in Riftstalker.
    yes and justicars need more magic mitigation, doubt it's coming.

    there's point to this:

    some classes can deal with one thing best (rogues)
    another can deal with something that the other does worst(clerics)
    yet another can do both things equally well without being crap.(warriors)
    'It's been a looooong time....

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    Rift Disciple Zenora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geistcreeper View Post
    There's another game out there somewhere that realized leather wearing classes had a hard time tanking physical damage. So they gave them a "form" to tank in that increased their armor by x amount when in said "form".

    The problem is 7 years old, and the solution is 7 years old. I'm not saying Rogues should have to actually turn into something else, but I think you get where I'm coming from.
    Actually they boosted the armor values for leather tanks. So as the armor got "better" the armor values from tank gear got better. The problem is that the increase from one tier set to the next isn't nearly good enough. Though to retain the fact that leather armor is weak would be hard to do and increase it here. Also, I think your talking about wow. Dex contributed to Armor. Which would boost the rift stalkers armor attribute a bit and give us some scaling with armor, though we don't receive very much dex from our armor as it stand currently. Some weapons also included armor as well, this would actually be a good boost. The problem here mostly is increasing rogue physical resistance without changing the idea of the class.
    Last edited by Zenora; 08-14-2011 at 07:12 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zenora View Post
    Actually they boosted the armor values for leather tanks. So as the armor got "better" the armor values from tank gear got better.
    This would be nice. By my maths, rogue tanks need something like a 500% modifier to their armor to come close to what Warriors get. Pretty sure Clerics have even more.

    Quote Originally Posted by twistinthunder View Post
    some classes can deal with one thing best (rogues)
    another can deal with something that the other does worst(clerics)
    yet another can do both things equally well without being crap.(warriors)
    Except that rogues actually aren't the best magical tanks. Warriors are due to their cooldowns and other buffs. On a mob which ONLY does magical damage and does it consistantly, warriors can spec to be only 2% different to rogues. So for our 2% advantage in magical damage, rogues get hit atleast twice as hard as warriors. Sounds like a rort to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by jereome View Post
    What riftstalkers need at a bare minimum is to have thier physical mitigation raised to within 10% of a warriors. The best way to do this would be to change improved guardian phase to add a percent increase to armor on the number of points invested in Riftstalker.
    There are a number of ways to do this.

    1. Increase the base armor on leather tanking gear.
    2. Guardian Phase passive increase.
    3. A stacking armor buff (or shield) every time we dodge (I like this one)
    4. Make our shields stack (bad idea, % increases are bad, we'll have this same issue again in 2 expansions time)
    5. Guarded Steel increase.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kryptyx View Post
    This is a pretty good idea, I don't mind taking more damage than warriors and I know warriors are more flexible tanks but taking nearly 50% more physical damage is a bit sad, especially when I'm in best in slot gear... I won't even mention what Soulrender hits me for, it was ridiculous.
    Bosses in Drowned Halls are pushing my **** in. I'm getting hit about 2-3 times as hard as our warrior tank does.
    I'M RIFTSTALKING YOUR MUM!

    I've found that Warriors are like Feminists. They want equality when it suits them, but the rest of the time they want to be treated special.

  9. #9
    Ascendant Cromagis's Avatar
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    Sure, buff rogue damage, and tanking all around, they could use it.

    But nerf slip away. And being able to keep somebody in combat as they bleed too death due to not eating.

    AKA

    1.Rogue damage buff, and tanking.
    2.have fun
    3.??????
    4.Exquisite profit.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paikis View Post
    This would be nice. By my maths, rogue tanks need something like a 500% modifier to their armor to come close to what Warriors get. Pretty sure Clerics have even more.
    That is because you are bad at math.. with a 500% bonus I would have over 20000 armor, which is far beyond warrior or cleric.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deathmaster35 View Post
    That is because you are bad at math.. with a 500% bonus I would have over 20000 armor, which is far beyond warrior or cleric.
    You have 4,000 base armor? Because I have only 3,000 and Im in T1 raid gear. Are you sure you aren't checking your armor with the 20% from the 5 points in riftstalker bottom rank abilities? Remember that the % only applies to base armor, not to modified armor.
    I'M RIFTSTALKING YOUR MUM!

    I've found that Warriors are like Feminists. They want equality when it suits them, but the rest of the time they want to be treated special.

  12. #12
    Plane Walker Kryptyx's Avatar
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    I'm at 7,333 armor with Guarded Steel up (5936 normal) and 25.19% dodge with False Blade up (20.19% normal) completely self buffed, nothing else... I still take hits like a paper tank in HK...

    The solution is very simple, change Guarded Steel to be based on the total Dex you have. I also would not mind a little love in the threat department but its not a huge issue. Warriors are still broken when it comes to threat with their 1pt calls pulling more threat than anything else in game.

    I don't mind Rogue tanks being a niche class but if I have nearly best in slot everything I should be able to tank mobs at my gear level. After reviewing my damage logs in HK I take nearly double the damage our warriors take, I maintained all my buffs and use temps as needed but still take a much large amount of damage.

    As I said before, once you put your 51st point into the Riftstalker tree you stop your main form of damage mitigation. Dodge/Parry/Armor all help but do not scale nearly enough to put us on par with warriors.
    Last edited by Kryptyx; 08-15-2011 at 08:41 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paikis View Post
    You have 4,000 base armor? Because I have only 3,000 and Im in T1 raid gear. Are you sure you aren't checking your armor with the 20% from the 5 points in riftstalker bottom rank abilities? Remember that the % only applies to base armor, not to modified armor.
    Like I said, you are bad at math. If I had 4k base armor a 500% increase would put me at 24000 armor. You really need to start checking your work before posting anything with a number in it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deathmaster35 View Post
    Like I said, you are bad at math. If I had 4k base armor a 500% increase would put me at 24000 armor. You really need to start checking your work before posting anything with a number in it.
    My math looked fine, your comprehension however...

    Also I said 500% modifier, not bonus. As in *5 not *6. So a 500% modifier would give 15,000 with my armor.

    Change to a DPS spec and check your armor amount again. You get 20% passive amount for the first 5 points you put into Riftstalker. They dont count as base.
    I'M RIFTSTALKING YOUR MUM!

    I've found that Warriors are like Feminists. They want equality when it suits them, but the rest of the time they want to be treated special.

  15. #15
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    Riftstalkers are fine noone can run stones in whitefall like they do.

    Sorry couldnt resist

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