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Thread: Martial Artist class?

  1. #1
    Soulwalker
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    Lightbulb Martial Artist class?

    I'm just submitting this in the event Trion, or anyone else for that matter, hasn't thought of the idea of a martial artist class.

    I understand it probably wouldn't add terribly much to the game, or class selection, but I think it'd look pretty cool to see someone using his hands and feet to take down enemies. I imagine it'd be a very flashy looking class, and I'm guessing it'd fall under the rogue class.

    I can see special gloves, maybe a left glove and a right glove, or maybe various versions of brass knuckles being available for dual wielded weapons.

    Flying kicks could operate as a type of charge. A flurry of punches could be a channeled ability.

    I know Trion has much more important things to work on, but I'd love to see this added someday.

  2. #2
    Rift Disciple Jabbz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by demontrace View Post
    I'm just submitting this in the event Trion, or anyone else for that matter, hasn't thought of the idea of a martial artist class.

    I understand it probably wouldn't add terribly much to the game, or class selection, but I think it'd look pretty cool to see someone using his hands and feet to take down enemies. I imagine it'd be a very flashy looking class, and I'm guessing it'd fall under the rogue class.

    I can see special gloves, maybe a left glove and a right glove, or maybe various versions of brass knuckles being available for dual wielded weapons.

    Flying kicks could operate as a type of charge. A flurry of punches could be a channeled ability.

    I know Trion has much more important things to work on, but I'd love to see this added someday.
    Myeah, post this in "wich classes would you like to see in rift" thread. They'd might read it.
    hoping for new talents aswell, don't think they will add any though.

  3. #3
    Plane Walker Halman's Avatar
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    They will probably add something like eq2/aoc's alternate advancement system. At least this is the most expected way of 'adding more talents' without breaking the 51 point soul system.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Halman View Post
    They will probably add something like eq2/aoc's alternate advancement system. At least this is the most expected way of 'adding more talents' without breaking the 51 point soul system.
    They 'probably' will add AAs since they said that was the plan in the 'state of telara' address.

    A martial artist class would probably be similar to the EQ monk. You'd use 2 weapons (gloves, cestus, brass knuckles, tonfas, tambos, etc.) and leather armor (making it a rogue). You'd have some sort of weapon so that they would follow the traditional gear scaling that other souls use (i.e. get better weapons to do more damage).

    The main problem with a monk class is that it would break the standard pratice of "all souls within a calling use the same weapons" (for the most part). Tanks, and to a lesser extent healers, break the rule, but they are consistant across callings. Warriors are the only calling that really breaks the rule (champion prefers 2h, paragon prefers 1hs). In addition it would break the rule of "weapons can be used by multiple callings" (once again, warriors and to a lesser extent clerics break this rule - due to 2h in general and 1/2h maces for clerics), unless they were rolled into the basic "1h mace" class and available to other callings.

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    Plane Touched pkudude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minerian View Post
    A martial artist class would probably be similar to the EQ monk. You'd use 2 weapons (gloves, cestus, brass knuckles, tonfas, tambos, etc.) and leather armor (making it a rogue). You'd have some sort of weapon so that they would follow the traditional gear scaling that other souls use (i.e. get better weapons to do more damage).
    A Shao Lin monk uses swords, spears (yari and naginata both), daggers, and even spikes as well as the more traditional "martial arts weapons" that you mention. He also wears no armor at all.

    If one followed that line of reasoning it'd have to be a mage soul since it would use robes for its armor

    Of course, we are talking Fantasy Monks, which tend to be based off the D&D rules for them (though it should be noted that D&D monks also wear no armor. . . . ), and not real ones, so of course one has to add restrictions and options in order to make the gameplay more interesting.

    Still, I'll admit to missing such a class in this game and with how it's currently set up, I do think that the Rogue archetype/calling would be best suited for them, if they were to somehow be added.

  6. #6
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    http://eu.riftgame.com/en/classes/warrior/paragon.php

    All of the typical "Monk" tropes outside of fighting unarmed are tied up in the paragon, so.. it's unlikely.

    Flurry of blows -> Way of the Wind

    Immovable solid stance -> Way of the Mountain.

    Striking like a monster with a deceptively weak weapon (2 1h in this case, normally unarmed) -> Strike like iron.

    "Wave punch" mechanics -> Path of the *

    Vulcan nerve pinch hijinks -> Touch of Tranquility

    Dim mak (death touch, whatever) -> Touch of Death

    Bend Like Reed/Grace of the Three Rings/Predictable movements shore up the "peerless skill comes with peerless defense" angle monks usually have. Follow up attacks take over the "combo moves" angle.

    Rift defies typical character archetypes.. mostly by adding them anyhow and changing them a little.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by pkudude View Post
    A Shao Lin monk uses swords, spears (yari and naginata both), daggers, and even spikes as well as the more traditional "martial arts weapons" that you mention. He also wears no armor at all.

    If one followed that line of reasoning it'd have to be a mage soul since it would use robes for its armor

    Of course, we are talking Fantasy Monks, which tend to be based off the D&D rules for them (though it should be noted that D&D monks also wear no armor. . . . ), and not real ones, so of course one has to add restrictions and options in order to make the gameplay more interesting.

    Still, I'll admit to missing such a class in this game and with how it's currently set up, I do think that the Rogue archetype/calling would be best suited for them, if they were to somehow be added.
    Those are good points and I considered the swords. You could make a case for a warrior soul in that case.

    I also considered the robe issue - but we both agree a) no armor isn't an option because you need to have an armor gear path and b) monk doesn't really fit with the rest of the 'mage' souls (though you could make the argument of spirituality and that the mage charge special would make an interesting martial artist mechanic).

    Kyuubin does make a good point that paragon could fit a martial artist role...particularly a more armored style. Something like a Samurai (or Kendo) maybe?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Minerian View Post
    Those are good points and I considered the swords. You could make a case for a warrior soul in that case.

    I also considered the robe issue - but we both agree a) no armor isn't an option because you need to have an armor gear path and b) monk doesn't really fit with the rest of the 'mage' souls (though you could make the argument of spirituality and that the mage charge special would make an interesting martial artist mechanic).

    Kyuubin does make a good point that paragon could fit a martial artist role...particularly a more armored style. Something like a Samurai (or Kendo) maybe?
    Wow I love the idea of a samurai under the warrior class.

    Monks under rogue.

    Shoot, why don't we throw in a ninja for good measure, and a pirate to make the combination complete.

    But no, for real, I really hope we see a martial artist. I would love to see a bull rush type of charge on a monk, but you actually see the guy jump and fly over to the enemy, delivering a savage kick to it's face.

    The samurai would be interesting.
    I don't think we should necessarily argue AGAINST having new classes added. I generally think more is better, as long as it's done well. There's plenty of reference material to be found for samurais, and martial artists. Plenty of culture to draw from.

    I'd try them out for sure.

    Not sure what you'd add for mages and clerics, so they don't feel left out. Ninja mage? Pirate cleric?

  9. #9
    Telaran Ansari's Avatar
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    The biggest problem is art resources. You're talking creating an entirely new set of animations and an entirely new set of weapons to go with them which would have to be created, itemized and added as drops to the entire game. That's a ton of work, unfortunately, and the animations would not be universal. Rift, like many MMOs, skirts animation resources by reusing the same animations for similar weapons. A martial arts style of combat would be completely outside of that and thus have to be built from the ground up.

    Would it be potentially cool? Sure. Would it be a total pain in the *** for Trion to develop? Unfortunately. -.-




    Quote Originally Posted by pkudude View Post
    A Shao Lin monk uses swords, spears (yari and naginata both), daggers, and even spikes as well as the more traditional "martial arts weapons" that you mention. He also wears no armor at all.
    Yari and Naginata are Japanese weapons, Shaolin Monks are Chinese. >.> A Chinese spear is a Qiang. Shaolin Monks however would more likely use a staff.



    Quote Originally Posted by pkudude View Post
    Still, I'll admit to missing such a class in this game and with how it's currently set up, I do think that the Rogue archetype/calling would be best suited for them, if they were to somehow be added.
    Honestly, I don't think it fits onto any of the Callings. Because of A) Armour ( Monks don't wear any ) and B) Theme. It really doesn't fit Mage at all, and that's the only Calling that doesn't wear armour. Rogue's wear leather and are, well, rogues. Monks are suppose to at least be a spiritual lot, so doesn't mesh well with that whole stabby poison thing.

    Clerics would be the logical thematic choice, but the fact they wear chain negates it.



    Still, it would be interesting to see Souls more centered around specific weapons. Polearms and spears feel kind of underutilized in Rift. A staff specific fighting style would be interesting too. The problem is that all Souls on a Calling use all the weapons of the Calling. Distinguishing only by melee, range and shield. So any Soul focused on a specific weapon within a given Calling would have to have a weapon specific restriction on all of its abilities. Otherwise you're gonna get backstabbed with a staff.
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  10. #10
    Champion of Telara Silverangel69's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ansari View Post
    Honestly, I don't think it fits onto any of the Callings. Because of A) Armour ( Monks don't wear any ) and B) Theme. It really doesn't fit Mage at all, and that's the only Calling that doesn't wear armour. Rogue's wear leather and are, well, rogues. Monks are suppose to at least be a spiritual lot, so doesn't mesh well with that whole stabby poison thing.

    Clerics would be the logical thematic choice, but the fact they wear chain negates it.
    Seems like it would need to be its own calling and have a lot of different souls for different styles. Tiger Rush, then Monkey Style interrupts and a Panda style finisher, then some meditation for a quick heal? Agree that it would be a crazy big investment of work, and it would be really hard to make the lore believable, but that could be just about the most amazing class ever in an MMO.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ansari View Post
    So any Soul focused on a specific weapon within a given Calling would have to have a weapon specific restriction on all of its abilities. Otherwise you're gonna get backstabbed with a staff.
    Eh, my rogue backstabs with a mace. Why not a staff?
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    Plane Walker Araenn's Avatar
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    monk as an archetype actually fits well, if the souls were different fighting styles and abilities. this might work in the class design favor because the soul system lends itself well to mixing, and would be the first time an MMO would have a martial artist capable of truely mixing syles rather than simply switching between pure styles.
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  13. #13
    Telaran Ansari's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaelon View Post
    Eh, my rogue backstabs with a mace. Why not a staff?
    Well, mace aside ( a bit silly but hey, Trion allowed it I guess ) but we're still talking a 1H weapon vs 2H weapon.


    Quote Originally Posted by Araenn
    monk as an archetype actually fits well, if the souls were different fighting styles and abilities. this might work in the class design favor because the soul system lends itself well to mixing, and would be the first time an MMO would have a martial artist capable of truely mixing syles rather than simply switching between pure styles.
    I think the current 4 archtypes cover everything, and its enough trouble juggling just 4. What would help is making some existing Souls specialize in specific weapons and armour. That would add some much needed variety. There's a bit of this already ( bow, shield or dual wield specific abilities ). If weapons and armour were Soul specific rather than Calling specific you'd open up some options like Monk for Clerics or a staff/spear fighter for Rogue or a polearm/lance fighter for Warrior, etc.

    You could also theorhetically give Mage a melee option then. ( ala DaoC Valewalker or Heretic ). Mage has the most redundant playstyle of all the Callings to be honest. The other 3 Callings can change their style of play between Souls. But Mage is always ranged, casting and squishie.

    Ugh, I sense another 15 page essay post coming on about how to improve classes.. >.>
    Last edited by Ansari; 08-12-2011 at 12:23 AM.
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  14. #14
    Sword of Telara Ts117's Avatar
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    All 4 classes already use martial arts

  15. #15
    Plane Walker Halman's Avatar
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    Tbh they should have added a 'brawler' type offensive warrior with 1h+shield/buckler, which would use that buckler for offense. Like smashing one's face with it.

    Speaking bout the dual wield style in general, it was never ever used in reality in the way it's conveyed in fantasy. The only acceptable variation would be a 1h sword/saber + dagger/stiletto, but even that was rarely used. Dual wielding two equal size weapons makes absolutely no sense in practice. Especially two daggers, as having the reach advatage over an opponent is crucial in fencing. Still it has its fans..and spread. So arguing over wether it's logical or not for a monk to use one one-handed weapon...well..is pointless.

    And mage frankly cries to have a melee soul/build. Flavor wise, it could be similiar to wh40k's eldar warlocks in using protective spells, mentally powered weaponry and magically hightened reflexes/awareness/foresight to boost their efficiency and resiliense in combat. This could very well be a tank class with no block but an increased amount of passive absorption similiar to riftstalker. Could also use some short or melee-range aggro/cc/temp defensive buff spells and permanent setback immunity for further synergy with other mage trees, maybe higher in the tree. This could also use some phantom sword/spear/shield graphics overlay over their regular weapons to make them easier to spot and look more badass.
    Last edited by Halman; 08-12-2011 at 05:03 PM.

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